Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

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  1. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    That’s great but his chance of becoming coach between now and the World Cup seem pretty minuscule assuming he’d even want the job. Sometimes you gotta dance with the one that brung ya.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #7202 gogorath, Jun 24, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2024
    I went completely through every year he's been there and demonstrated many changes and evolutions of what we run.

    I've never said Berhalter is awesome. I've just noted that we've absolutely adapted and evolved based on a changing roster, which is absolutely what a coach should do. There's nothing spectacular about it at all.

    But people like you insist on claiming that he's been very rigid and never changed. He literally scrapped and rebuilt his entire defense (and now seems to be changing again). We've changed how we use our fullbacks and our midfield multiple times.

    No, we don't wildly swing style of play every match nor do we have tons of shifts of basic formational elements. Is that actually a bad thing? I dunno.

    But if you insist on saying he doesn't adapt, I'm going to call you on it. We can always argue degree, but we've changed a lot more than people want to admit.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We should not be upset with a 7/8. Nines and 10s are rare and in the international game, hard to predict. Honestly, none of your posts here seem to imply you think Berhalter is a 7.

    I like a lot about Cherundolo, but I do think that we have to consider that he's had a stacked team every year in LA, and that his choice to try and make them a 100% counter team this year both was pretty odd and didn't work. Kudos to him for backing off, but it never made a lot of sense and I'd love to hear his reasoning. Because I don't love the idea of wanting to fix something that ain't broken so I'm wondering if it was personal preference on style or whether he was trying to fix something he anticipated.

    For all the talk between Cherundolo and Berhalter, the latter lost an MLS Cup on a goalkeeper blunder and Cherundolo won his on pens ... and the latter definitely had a much pricier and talented roster.

    My point isn't to say that means all that much but rather that even folks with that level of success in MLS (or perhaps anywhere) aren't necessarily going to make the national team play above talent.
     
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  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Globally Berhalter is basically a replacement level coach.

    But he has changed up style a good amount since he started and he definitely has a pragmatic streak when things get real.
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Replacement level is such a difficult concept here. In baseball or something, it's very clear the levels, and the next guy off the roster is substantially below an average player in baseball.

    Here, because coaches have less impact but it's also not clear exactly what is a "lower" level, I would say that he's actually an average international coach where most coaches are average. I am sure there's a number of MLS (our AAA?) coaches who could step in and do similarly, but I think easily half of them (or more) would do significantly worse and I'm not entirely sure anyone does better (though odds say someone would).

    There are clear quibbles: the team can be too inconsistent on effort, he's a tad too conservative for me but I'm not sure that's wrong. I'd like to see more people in the box, more overloads, more aggression but I'm aware there are trade-offs.

    He tends to want to give players and gameplans a lot of time to prove out and I'm not sure that's wrong.

    The style of play he pushes, especially in friendlies, might be a bridge too far for us but I kind of like that.

    We also struggle to convert in the final third but I have no idea if the next coach will solve that.

    And we'll see if his motivational elements can stick for 6-7 years. That's a long time.

    But there's so many criticisms that just don't ring true to me.
     
  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By replacement level I mostly just mean he’s basically an average coach by global standards. Not on the level of the elite coaches but also not a terrible manager like many obviously think.

    I also think he’s got some specific qualities that are valuable to the USMNT that wouldn’t translate elsewhere.

    But mostly while we may upset a team or two our successes or failures are going to be much more driven by the player pool than they are going to be driven by Berhalter.
     
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  7. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    I agree that Berhalter has changed up some stuff, especially since he took over as head coach the first time around. I also like how you mentioned Gregg goes pragmatic when games really matter.

    I just think he doesn’t change some things when they need it. Every one of us, and I’d imagine we are all not-as-good-of-coaches than Gregg, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t see a problem: that backline can’t pass, and Gregg forces play through players like Richards during high pressure moments that cause the team to go into unnecessary defensive transitions. In the last three matches, how many opportunities and goals were given up after our backline was unnecessarily playing around with the ball? I bet the percentage is high.

    I did like that they had more direct play last night and vs Brazil. But why not vs Colombia?

    Now it’s: let’s drop Gio back because our CB’s and RB can’t pass worth a damn.
     
  8. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to push back on this a bit. Ream, Richards and when he was here Brooks are in club play some of the best passers and long passers we've ever had. It's not coincidence they've all struggled a lot more for the US than their club teams. A lot of their problems passing is their teammates don't move into good positions to receive passes. I was in the end zone at the US _ Canada game in Nashville for WCQ and could watch what Brooks was seeing and many times there just wasn't a good pass on the ground. he's good at those long aerial switches but he, Ream and Richards are all good at those long grass burners too. Probably why Reyna is being forced to pay deeper because he is one who understands how to get open for passes.
     
  9. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I also thought McKennie looked well behind the pace of the game and people were passing where they thought he would be.
     
  10. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    come on, gogorath. Even when I say I rate Gregg a 7, you charge me with stating falsehoods!

    Speaking of falsehoods, you mention that Geggs’s 2015 Crew team lost MLS cup with an inferior roster than LAFC’s. How do you judge this?

    according to TranserMarkt:

    The 2015 Columbus Crew had a team value greater than any of the LAFC teams coached by Cherundolo.
     
  11. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me the only thing a coach can do to correct this is to use different players. And Berhalter has used a ton of guys up top. Pepi, Wright, Dike, Sargent, Balo, Vazquez, Ferreira. Not sure he or any coach can fix that problem. Shoot look at yesterday. The game plan worked very well to get guys on the ball inside the 18. What more can a coach do here?
     
  12. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    The arguments around Berhalter are always fascinating to me. Like there are clearly things that are issues under Berhalter I think there's a sloppiness and a lack of interest way too often against "lesser" teams I also think at times Gregg is slow to adjust when the team starts struggling. I think there have been times where Berhalter had made subs to "change the attitude" so to speak with bringing guys like Morris, Acosta, and Yedlin into games when their profile wasn't always what the game needed.

    I wouldn't say Gregg is a great tactician but for the talent we have I always come away asking who on the team do you trust to make a consistent pass aside from Gio. Is it Tillman? Is it Wes? Is it Luca?
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    How do you figure that?

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/columbus-crew-sc/kader/verein/813/saison_id/2014

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/los-angeles-fc/kader/verein/51828/saison_id/2021/plus/1

    Or this -- on Oct 1, 2022, LAFC had a market value of 64M Euro, 3rd in MLS.

    On October 1, 2015, the Crew had a 15M Euro valuation. Which was good for 5th in MLS, but their payroll was right around average that year (and below average in every other year).

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/major-...ein/wettbewerb/MLS1/plus/?stichtag=2015-10-01
     
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  14. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    Brian Schmetzer!
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do think if things go terribly against Panama and we fail to get out the group Cherundolo would be one of the primary options (along with Nancy and Curtin). And unnamed foreign candidates who likely aren’t taking the job.
     
  16. superdave

    superdave BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you watch us against better teams, you’ll see a lot of instances where we play cautiously with the ball to avoid turnovers, which allows the other team to get their defense set.

    The overall point I agree with, but it wasn’t a problem against Bolivia.
     
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  17. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    homie, when I click those links, which are the same ones I looked at, I see:

    LAFC: €44.45 m
    CC: €50.05 m

    maybe I’m looking at the wrong thing.
     
  18. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we fail to get out of the group then Greg needs to be fired immediately. It seems like the most probable outcome is a 1st or 2nd place finish and a loss against Colombia or Brazil in the 1st knockout game. I have to assume this would allow Greg to keep his job unless we are embarrassed by Uruguay and/or our knockout round opponent. I don't see a likely scenario where we beat Brazil or Colombia but I am betting we play well enough to save GB's job.... which of course will only hurt us in the long run. As much as I enjoy our recent domination of Mexico, the GB-led USMNT is due for a tournament win against a legit opponent. A draw is not good enough IMO.
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That is the current market value of those teams today.
     
  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One think about the knockouts is until the final if it ends in a tie it goes straight to penalties. And there’s an element of randomness involved when you go to penalties.
     
  21. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL you are all over the place bruh.
     
  22. Ghost

    Ghost BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 5, 2001
    Its embarrassing seeing us play in front of a half full stadium at home in a major tournament. Maybe that's not fair to Berhalter. But the market has spoken.
     
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  23. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    The market has spoken about Berhalter?
     
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  24. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    McKennie is another player who needs to be challenged. Of course he’s a baller, but players like him need to be challenged.
    Hugs!
     
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  25. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    I guess I still don’t see how these details prove that Bergalter did a better job with CC in 2015 than Cherundolo in any year with LAFC.
     

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