Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

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  1. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I think that's obviously true, but I'd like to see us show we can play against a top team in a way that doesn't result in us bleeding chances and goals. They clearly did that against England at the WC--they didn't score and didn't have many great chances. But then the other data points aren't good. Holland scored 3 goals; Germany scored 3 goals (and had lots of good chances); and Colombia scored 5 goals (and had lots of good chances).

    Against Brazil, I'd like to see them set the goal of cleaning a clean sheet for the first 45 minutes and not giving up many good chances either, even if that means we don't score either. That doesn't necessarily mean just bunkering (as it didn't against England), but they need to be a lot more dialed in defensively and a lot more careful with the ball in possession. Then, the 2nd half can be used to experiment in other ways, and if we end up losing after 90 minutes, that's ok.
     
  2. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    1) Sometimes I like how his strategies have adapted to the pool. Sometimes I don't. Didn't like the early approach back before the Covid break. But I think getting the fullbacks high is exactly what you want to do, if Dest is healthy and Robinson is on his game (And he often has been.) I also think MMA was a good way to use the available talent and cover for a pretty average center-back group. I thought it worked when the right players were available. I have mixed feelings about what has happened since the reboot.
    2) Outside of England and the Netherlands at the World Cup, I don't know what a signature win would be other than against Mexico. I don't really care about friendly wins any more. Berhalter clearly doesn't. For me, the 2-0 win against Mexico in Ohio during qualifying was a pretty significant result. The US dictated the game in a way I don't think we had until that point. Their side hadn't aged out yet. I don't know if it was a signature win in terms of the result, but the manner of how it happened felt like a turning point.
     
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  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m fairly certain if we make the semifinals the anti Berhalter types on Twitter are not going to be satisfied.

    And Berhalter is going to be judged based on what happens in the tournament and that’s completely fair. But the reality is always that the small sample size of a tournament isn’t usually a representative analysis. You could play poorly and be lucky to advance or you could play well and lose on bad luck. But in either instance you’re still going off the results themselves.
     
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  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I mean playing well against Brazil will mean we didn’t just get rolled and give up a bunch of goals very easily.

    But the underlying performance is more important than the overall score line for a friendly. A bad underlying performance will definitely also show up in the score line too.
     
  5. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    #7130 nobody, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
    I firmly believe that Berhalter is coaching in the Copa regardless of tonight's result. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that if we fail to get out of the group, Berhalter should be gone. I think the fed at that point may actually act. Also, most seem to agree that a run to the semis will and should keep him in charge. But the reality is that the most likely Copa outcome by far is getting through the group by finishing over Panama and Bolivia (two teams we should get past) and losing to Brazil (a team we should not) in the first knock out round. And that's where I think most around here would like to cut him loose, but I don't expect the fed would see it that way at all. They'd see more of hitting par and being good with that. Expectations met. Baring a disaster, and not getting out of the first round would be a disaster, we will be coached by Gregg Berhalter for a second World Cup. The discussion of the next coach is most likely not to start in earnest until after the summer of 2026.
     
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  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there’s no way he’s getting fired tonight no matter the result.

    But I think the minimum standard for him to keep it is get out of the group and don’t get completely embarrassed against Uruguay and in the quarterfinal. A game like Columbia friendly would qualify as being completely embarrassed.

    But say if we tie Uruguay in a game in which they are resting players and we lose to Brazil in hard fought game which is close, I don’t think Berhalter is going anywhere.
     
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  7. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I just read a Ricardo Pepi quote where he said “anything besides making it out of the group will be bad for us.” So sounds like the atmosphere in the locker room might not be one of devastation if we see a taking care of business group followed by a hard fought knockout loss. Fans will have a much broader range of opinions, though, as we saw with the World Cup.
     
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  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Friendly performance alone doesn't have any immediate impact on the job status of a USMNT coach.
    But bad performances ratchet up the hot seat.

    Klinsmann had some horrific losses in friendlies. One of the most abject losses I've ever seen as a USMNT fan was under Klinsmann against Brazil in 2015. [Totally different than the one I just saw against Colombia.] That was followed by a loss in their next friendly against Costa Rica. Again, both matches at home. Made no difference to his job status. But the hot seat under Klinsmann heading into the WCQing campaign was pretty severe.

    To be honest, that Colombia game was 2-1 in the 60h minutes. Berhalter had taken out three key pieces: Pulisic, McKennie, Reyna. He doesn't do that if the game mattered. You have to give coaches the license to make mistakes and experiment with things in friendlies. Sure, take off Pulisic and try Wright on the wing. Give it a shot. We learned something.

    What I'm trying to say is a bad loss to Brazil in this friendly won't mean anything by itself. But follow that up with a bad Copa America campaign, and it might.....................

    [On the other hand, the USSF won't want to buy out his contract. They're hemorrhaging money as it is. We have their tax returns folks.]
     
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  9. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That doesn't disagree with what I said.
     
  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it very much does as Berhalter is saying how they play is more important that the score line which you criticized.
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Plus..................there's nothing in that press conference that tons of coaches also don't say. Its innocuous. I swear. Berhalter can make any simple comment and this board will blow it into some horrible violation.

    People do know, I assume, that coaches don't say the same thing to the media that they're saying in the locker room.
     
  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #7137 grandinquisitor28, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
    It's more just the only time we've seen the USMNT look like the top of its powers in the past two years was really NL '23, and Egg wasn't the coach for that. Was that Callaghan? I don't know.

    I do know the '23 vs '21 NL comp is really open to question.

    First of all. Egg was hired as coach for the USMNT in June of '23 but inexplicably was not the HC for the Gold Cup. Was he also not involved in roster selection? I'm skeptical, I don't know for a fact, so I'm just throwing it out there that the '23 Gold Cup was a built in disaster much like the '21 Olympic Qualifying Camp which Berhalter also influenced, Kreis later complaining or pointing to some of the choices made, as not his more or less, and that's a good bit why I wonder if Berhalter was influential w/it because in both cases, the design of the roster was defensively focused, and totally lacking in creative, chance generating talent. Could be unfair to Egg, but look at that '23 roster: you've got 1 starter, 1 sometime starter, and 1 other guy considered a locked in top 26 guy (backup keeper Johnson), after that there's a good chunk of 27-40 guys (3) and prospects (6 or 7). It's a nice roster in terms of prospects, but its 100% not a roster with starters, or top 26 guys (only 2-3). The '21 side had 9 guys, basically 1/3 that were a part of WC '22 or a heavy part of qualifying like Arriola (and I'm not counting Lletget who was a big part of '21 but disappeared forevermore after window 2).

    So to me, it's patently obvious Egg gave the '21 side a weakened, but next best group of his options: you've got WC selections in Turner, S. Johnson, Robinson, Zim, Acosta, Roldan, and Shaq Moore 7/26 WC roster makers, and then those guys who were key chunks of the A roster into '21 who didn't make the WC roster in Arriola, Cannon, Vines, Busio, Lletget, and maybe Sands for his fans.

    It's easy to look at the '21 Gold Cup roster, and it's basically 2-3 starters, and several immediate backups. It's got essentially 7 core guys and another 6 (to make 13) of the top 30 or so. For the '23 Gold Cup roster, how many guys were top 26? 3, not 7, and for the next group, we all know, it wasn't heavy in the next best guys, instead it was heavy in prospects: Cowell, Gaga, Tolkin, Neal, Morris and Busio, and the rest of the roster was filled with past it vets.

    The roster screamed "EGG," I didn't like it, but I wasn't a complainer (rereading to edit and I can't believe I wrote that lol. What I really meant was, "I was fine w/the crappy results if we got the opportunity to blood potentially useful players, in tournament conditions"), and if you look at my predictions in the roster release and discussions before the tournament after roster release I argued at the time we wouldn't make the Final, and would struggle to make the Semi's, if that. You could say BJ was an idiot, or sucked at the Gold Cup, but the more fair pronouncement, is that BJ, Egg, or both, never intended to win Gold Cup '23 in the first place. The Gold Cup roster was a mismatched ---- fest, but the purpose seemed clear: have a bunch of glue guys to stick it together, and then surround them with a ring of satellites made of young guys who could be worth looking at the following 2.5 years: the Cowell's, the Tolkins and Neal's, the Busio's and Aidan's etc.

    This is too much to write about a coach we had for 3 months lol, but it's salient. Either Egg broke Gold Cup '23, BJ broke it, or both. I tend to think Egg and BJ worked together on Egg's long term interests with the pool while also trying to get another miracle run like '21. But the difference between '21 and '23 was pretty clear: the '21 roster was built to grind with a goal keeper in the top of his career form, ever, and the '23 roster was built to develop young players while trying to generate some results. They had distinctly different objectives: the '21 roster was building starters and reserves for depth in ocho qualifying, the '23 had no immediate concerns.

    So did BJ suck in the '23 Gold Cup? Maybe. Honestly, I don't know, I thought they would crash out in the semi's to Panama originally, but when we had Canada in the QF's, I 100% assumed we'd lose then. So in a sense, they actually out performed my expectations. They managed to take a better Canada, and a better Panama roster to penalties with a lineup that basically had 3 top 26 guys on it. That's not bad, even if it was as ugly as sin getting that far.
     
  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given that they were on the brink of hiring Marsh before pivoting to Berhalter at the last minute, I don’t think Berhalter picked the Gold Cup roster. As it was named before the hire was finalized. It was almost certainly entirely picked by Callaghan. But the thing you got to remember about Callaghan is he’s Berhalter’s long time assistant and was a part of the decision making process for previous rosters last cycle. He’s likely to have very similar opinions about the pool as a whole even without Berhalter having to tell him.

    Given how bad that Canada team was in the group stage and given how bad their roster was, I absolutely did not expect we’d lose to them or struggle against them. If we had lost to Mexico in the final that would have been fine, but we definitely underachieved in that Gold Cup.

    Meanwhile during the Callaghan era you had player after player saying not much had changed and they were doing all the same things. One of the big differences is the first time in a long time you had a healthy and fit Gio Reyna. Something Berhalter didn’t really have for the last two years of previous cycle. You also had Balogun who scored in the final against Canada.

    And we looked good against Mexico, but that’s been the case for Berhalter too.
     
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  14. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Plus he already came out with the disciplinarian aspect when he said the team disrespected the game and opponent last time around. If Klinsmann or someone said that exact line they’d be praised for the tough, winner’s attitude.
     
  15. Scissorkick Collins

    Dec 30, 2009
    Uranus
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with most of this. The most painful thing I remember about that Gold Cup was running out much of the same lineup against Canada that just went 120 minutes less than 72 hours before.

    As a fan of Dejuan Jones, I don’t get 1) why he started and went 100 minutes after just going 120 when there was a healthy Tolkin available and 2) when it was clear that Canada’s gameplan was to wait for us to make the predictable pass outside to (an exhausted) Jones to start possession and double-team him, cutting off any outlets, and we never adjusted. Just kept doing it and giving the ball back to Canada. It was ugly.
     
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  16. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I'd take Jill Ellis. Not joking. At least she's flexible. Can adjust.
     
  17. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tim Ream has to get a coaching license once his playing days are over. Eventually he should be the coach but of course he will first need some experience. But he might just be able to step in with his experience and leadership.
     
  18. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    We have zero idea whether he'd be a good or bad coach
     
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  19. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    She would not win unless judges up and down the appeals process decided to make new law. One of the key equal pay cases was I think a successful female UCLA coach who sued them. She pointed to a much less successful male coach getting paid more than her. Basically the courts said that they weren’t doing the same job because they weren’t coaching the same team against the same competition. They also said that the market for coaches in each sport is different.

    Legally the USWNT players’ suit was going to fail. They got what they wanted because it was incredibly bad press for the Fed and the sponsors who fund it (along with the millions in legal fees). If the Men’s program starts getting a bunch more money spent on it than the Women’s there’s a good chance it all starts again. I also wonder if that kind of spending disparity would violate the settlement, which would be much easier to win than a gender discrimination claim.

    The other political aspect is that the national teams are just part of what the Fed does. The money that goes to them can’t go elsewhere. Agreeing to the Women’s demands tied up a bunch more money. If the Fed needs to equal any bump in spending that means $5-10m becomes $10-20m. Right now that would force a lot of hard choices that a lot of stakeholders wouldn’t support. Personally I think $20m/year would be better spent elsewhere in the American soccer ecosystem than with the highest paid male and female players and coaches in the country.
     
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  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn’t USSF initially make this argument in court in terms of the equal pay case and had it backfire hugely for them in terms of the public optics?


    I think the only way that this sort of spending would happen on a manager is if an outside stakeholder picked up the tab (like Canada with Marsch and the MLS clubs chipping in). So you’re basically talking about funds that wouldn’t exist otherwise. I don’t think USSF is pulling out the money it takes from their own revenue streams otherwise.
     
  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Yeah, they argued based on what those prior decisions say the law is and it caused a shit storm.

    An outside donor would solve the fighting with other programs for resources problem but not the pay equality one.
     
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  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah so it’s a winning legal argument but one that they’d likely be constrained from making politically.
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    My concern is that the team looks very unbalanced. Our strength used to be in defending. Now it's the opposite.

    The games away in C-CAF were a clue. Once midfield reinforces the back line, the forwards are disconnected and good scoring chances are rare.
     
  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I"m not an expert in cb's and gk but it seems to me that the magic of Ream is in providing the "partnership" that cb pairings thrive on. Question: Absent Ream, who is the leader in the group of cb's Berhalter called in? A younger Zim could have been that guy but I'm not sure his form (injuries, age) will carry him to 2026. I wonder if Glad could have developed into that role if he had been called up.
     
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  25. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx BigSoccer Yellow Card

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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