Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meaning they gave a lawyer a job, and then Musk fired the lawyer who was working for him, for vetting internal documents before public release? Funny how the supposed controversy has shifted as even literal fascists like Sebastian Gorka called the original story (the "Biden team" held no power in the federal government in fall 2020 as Biden didn't take office until Jan 2021, so wanting his son's dick pics pulled from social media which obviously would never be a first amendment violation certainly was even less so at the time, unlike perhaps National Enquirer stories killed for Trump) a nothingburger...

     
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  2. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I do think this is a fair point. The biggest criticism I have of Berhalter basically comes down to player selection and subs. I think the player selection has gotten better over time.

    I think the biggest issue for Gregg has been that he tends to value gritty players a lot higher than most. Now you do need grit in a squad but there are times I think it comes at the price of offensive cohesion.

    Now one can make an argument that guys like Konrad, Ledezma, Busio,Djodje, Williamson and Paredes having injuries or seeing their progression stumble could have impacted that is another discussion.

    What I will say as well is that between Nation's League games, the best 2 Gold Cups, and Copa America there is no excuse to not try and build on some of the deficiencies with the roster whether it's Gregg or someone else
     
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  3. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #503 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    Of course Porter did succeed Berhalter at Columbus, scrapped GB's system including getting rid of Wil Trapp (who actually captained Porter's Akron College championship squad!), and won MLS Cup!
     
  4. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I love Chicago. But why would we tell a manager that he has to live in a particular city? Seems dumb.
     
  5. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    So if Tyler and Gio become “world class” (whatever that means) and we are fielding CL level players at every other position you would believe we have as good a chance as anyone to win it?
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Porter missed the playoffs his first year, then his team bought Lucas Zelarayan and a number of other players, finished first, won MLS on Zelarayan bangers.

    Columbus then went out and bought a bunch of good other players, was a clear favorite for MLS Cup, and proceeded to miss the playoffs twice more.

    Please, no more championing Caleb Porter. Missed the playoffs three years out of four, had a FAR more valuable roster then Berhalter three of those years, and all he had one good year that won a Cup because his star player went God mode (and never would again).
     
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  7. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The issue is timing. There’s not a lot of opportunities. So he does he gamble something opens up and they want him or risk nothing opening up / wanting him and missing out on staying with the USMNT and be forced back to MLS. It’s strange timing thanks to Qatar.
     
  8. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I think gogorath posted some data from the Athletic that encompasses much more than just possession numbers to show how the US played in Qatar was different from the past. I've also answered your question a couple of times up thread.

    Do you have anything to say about Klinsmann's tactics work after the 2014 World Cup? What a ********ing mess.....
     
  9. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oooooh, the Deep State (tm) narrative built on BS (not Big Soccer)
     
  10. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    This is common among the never-happy-with-anything-as-long-it's-Berhalter crowd. They are simply wrong on so many foundational facts. The idea that Porter simply "scrapped GB's system and then won MLS Cup" with the same players is completely erroneous.

    Someone mentioned poster accountability. It doesn't exist with this crowd. No shame -- they just move to the next erroneous bullshit.
     
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  11. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    It's why I wonder if any extension will be a get through the March camps then evaluate in summer situation

    Genoa did just fire their coach and they have American owners
     
  12. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I say extend Berhalter for as long as it takes to get Balogun in the fold. Give him a time limit of Copa '24
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If by World Class, you mean they are basically the best 1-3 players in the World at their position, and by CL you mean that they are contributing on a regular CL team (or a starter on a B list CL team) ... yeah, you're a contender.

    This is Brazil:

    CF: Offensive fulcrum on midtable EPL team / strong contributor CL contender
    LW: #1 offensive creator on Real Madrid
    CAM: Top 5 player in the world?
    RW: #1 offensive creator on mid/bottom EPL team / contributor on Barcelona
    CM: Productive midtable Top 5 starter
    DM: Top 3 at position - led Real Madrid for like a decade
    LB: Weak point, but does play for Juventus
    CB: Top 3 CB in World? Top 5?
    CB: Historically great, still very, very good and perhaps still Top 10 CB?
    RB: CB/FB for Real Madrid or a number of other players
    GK: Best GK in EPL. Generally considered the best mix of shotstopping and ball playing GK

    I mean, look at that. They can clearly be beat -- anyone can. But let's just appreciate a team like this.

    Neymar, Vinicius, Richarlison ... Rapinha is the weak link in attack!
    Casemiro, Marquinhos, Silva & Allison as a defensive core!

    The weak points are fullback and Lucas Paqueta, who is a pretty goal productive contributor for decent Top 5 teams. That's like saying the best version of say, Brenden Aaronson is our weak point.
     
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  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes if Gio becomes a player on the level of KDB and Adams becomes a player the level of Kante, we’d be on our way. We probably need another guy or two at level in addition and we need the rest of the squad to be basically be on the level where most of the guys are regular starters for top 4 teams in top 4 leagues.

    Looking at FIFA Best XI teams (a good proxy for being World Class, in 2010 Spain had 6 players (Iniesta, Xavi, Casillas, Pique, Puyol, and Villa). In 2014 Germany had 3 players (Neuer, Kroos, and Lahm), and in 2018 France had 3 players (Mbappe, Kante, and Varane).

    We’ve never even had one player whose been at that the FIFA best XI level and each of these teams had some of the elite level guys.

    Realistically we aren’t going to get there in the next four years and our goal is probably to try and be 2018 Croatia. We won’t have a Modric, but we can probably make it up with the rest of the squad.

    You don’t win the World Cup unless you have a ton of talent, and even teams with a lot of talent can get unlucky as soccer is a sport with a ton of variance and the best team doesn’t always win during a knockout tournament.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It wasn't me, and focusing on JK is pointless. There is an Athletic article talking about evolution though that is worth a look.

    Reality is that I don't think JK or Arena or Bradley were tactically terrible (until JK clearly stopped trying). All had weaknesses, and Bradley's probably the tactics savant there.

    We were forward this time around, and that is due to the player pool improving. I think Bradley would have made a lot of similar decisions. I think Arena would have just been defensive. And I think JK would have been super aggressive then pulled back.
     
  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hence a short term extension being likely. We’re not going to find a coach in the next few weeks anyways, so someone’s got to coach the team till we do.
     
  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #517 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    The US coaches I have "championed" as candidates for the next coach are Marsch and Dolo. I believe we have had that conversation.

    Porter beat Berhalter and won MLS Club with Portland in 2015. He replaced Berhalter at Columbus, scrapped GB's vaunted "system", brought in a new central attacker, and again won MLS Cup. 2 seperate teams, 2 MLS Cups, that is an achievement.

    Now Porter has the same Bobby Knight ego/style issues as Klinsmann and unlike Klinsmann, Porter does not have the gravitas derived from an elite player career and unexpected WC 3rd place finish as a manager. He would not be my choice but he is definitely a more successful coach in MLS that Berhalter was.
     
  18. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Tyler’s closing in on peak Kante. Doesn’t have the occasional runs into the final 3rd but he’s getting further and further into the attack at Leeds. Gio has a ways to go but not too many people would be shocked if it happened. We have plenty of other guys (Musah, McKennie, Puli) that are CL level players already. We’re missing very high level center backs and some high level strikers/attackers.

    They don’t grow on trees but a lot of those “world class” and CL starters of today won’t be what they currently are during the summer of 2026. It’s the advantage of being 2nd youngest in the world and already top 16. Modric and Silva excepted…because they’re gonna be amazing forever.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sure, a reasonable conversation.

    This is just positioning tripe. He didn't just bring in a new central attacker. Tim Bezbachenko -- who built the title team in Toronto -- brought in the league MVP with a $10M buy, which was like more than the market value of Columbus prior.

    They also traded for Nagbe, who had just won a title with Atlanta and signed Eloy Room, who was a small keeper upgrade on poor Zach.

    It was a team rework and they still were a good team that made a playoff run, not a dominant team. After that, they added Kevin Molino and $10M Cucho Hernandez and still never made the playoffs again.

    He did the same thing in Portland, taking team with two Top 10 MLS players to very yin and yang seasons and convincing people the high points were really good coaching and just ignore the massive disappointments.

    People want to prop him up to make Berhalter look bad. I get it. It's the usual MO around here. But man, I would not want him anywhere near this team and I don't think he outperformed Berhalter in Columbus.
     
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  20. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    I don’t know nearly as much about MLS as you guys, but I like the dude in Seattle. Seems to maximize his talent more than most.
     
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  21. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Weren't Columbus also like really bad when Gregg took over too? I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert but I feel like the team really got better with him
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Schmetzer is a fantastic man manager. He defers all tactical credit to assistants, and who knows how much is true. He's been with the Sounders basically his whole career. He's been a bit slow to play youth unless people are injured and there's not a ton of choice; he rides his starters and he absolutely lost MLS Cup a couple years ago by playing inferior veterans that got him there.

    I think there's also just a general risk there on experience -- Berhalter played and coached elsewhere, he played at a reasonably high level and in the World Cup. Will an MLS coach without that kind of history have credibility and how much do they have to learn?

    But he did just win CCL, which no one has done in this format with an MLS club. And players love him. And his teams have a pretty consistent tactical identity that is sort of middle of the road. He's stuck with pretty much 1-2 formations, only changing very rarely. Does a lot of wide overloads with Lodeiro and fullbacks in the old days and has had to transition away.
     
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  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every time you look at this list it gets worse

     
  24. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Short term doesn’t really help him tho. There’s any number of random guys to at can’t take over as caretaker. We don’t play any meaningful games and Ernie will be involved to make sure they do as he likes. If Copa is true then a 2 year deal might make sense to see them through the Copa and finish up in summer. However, I’d prefer he just walks.
     
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  25. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That doesn’t help him tho. Sure he gets paid but he only loses any shine from the WC he might have gained.
     

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