Next Coach 2.0 (2024-26)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 12, 2024.

  1. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has he won anything? I dont care about getting to Europe. I dont care about taking a rag tag bunch to a mid table finish. Why? Because you'll never have the time to instill that type of cohesiveness and desire at the NT level. That takes team building that only happens at the club level. There's just not enough time to build that team unit when you have maybe 6 camps a year, and now only 2 years or so instead of 4.

    If I was hiring for a club team, he is a better than average hire. But at the NT level, completely meh, could be worse, could be better. Again, I'm fine with the hire. He may do great, but it fits none of the criteria that Crocker threw out. I just think it's pretty average.
     
  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1277 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Aug 3, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2024
    Klinsmann was 59% at Germany and 57% at Bayern when he was hired for the US job. PM is actually similar to early Klopp, 40% for his 7 year stint at Mainz and Nagelsmann, 40% for his 3 year stint at Hoffenheim.

    He did a very impressive job taking the Hoffenheim job in February and keeping them up so he is good with taking a pool of players and immediately making the group more effective.

    PM's playing style certainly suits the US pool but I wonder if Crocker spoke to Jogi Lowe who does have serial winner/Big Name status.
     
  3. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if the PM rumors are true, probably a good thing now that France and Herve Renard are down 1-0 in the last 10 minutes of the quarterfinals.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Being American means that coach has a reason to take the job. It's not a negative.
     
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  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Matarazzo you get a German, an Italian, an American all rolled into one with a touch of New Jersey spice and Ivy League class. Abbondanza!
     
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  6. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coach A
    33 percent win
    1.6 goals per game

    Coach B
    38 percent win
    1.4 goals per game

    Coach C
    59 percent win
    2.0 goals per game

    Coach D
    43 percent win
    1.4 goals per game

    Coach E
    39 percent win
    1.5 goals per game

    Coach F
    45 percent win
    1.5 goals per game

    Who you taking throwing all trophies aside?
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This however is devoid of all context and circumstances like league, quality of team, etc.
     
  8. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you throw JK out the window because most knew it was the Assistants doing all the coaching. That said, he fit serial winner when he was hired.

    I think Matarazzo is a fine club Coach, and he may transition to be a wonderful NT coach. I just don't think he fits the criteria at all.

    My biggest question is how we play with 3 at the back

    I'd say we have Robinson, Ream, Richards, McKenzie, Zimmerman, CCV, Wynder, Trusty, Neal?

    I suppose it would be
    Robinson-Richards-x as Ream ages out.
     
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  9. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's my point, I don't value context as much as you guys do. Because at the NT level you won't have as much time to get the mentality right it takes to overachieve. It matters more about trophies won than "we did better than we thought". But yeah, take the manager for what they are wins and goals scored and trophies won. At the end of the day, that's all the context that matters to how I evaluate. Other people do it differently and that's okay with me.
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's not enough information. What level of competition? What was the talent level of the team?

    Matarazzo got Stuttgart promoted and kept them up. Hoeness came in a year plus and two coaches later, but has made them, much, much better. But Matarazzo also improved Hoffenheim.

    That's not a massive amount of experience nor it is completely without negative points. But it is success at a Top 4 league, especially relative to the expectations for most of those years.

    I'm not sure there's anyone we could get with a great winning percentage without contextual concerns.
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That's how we got Jurgen.

    There's a high school coach near me who has a winning percentage of .900+ -- should we hire him?
     
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  12. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A Matarazzo
    B Berhalter Pre US
    C Southgate as England manager
    D Renard
    E is Bradley pre us
    F Ranieri

    I dont value context as much as I do results at the NT level, unless it's replicated consistently in many different spots like Larry Brown did in the NBA.

    If we must add context to get to a positive solution, maybe the solution wasn't as positive as it should have been.

    If he is the hire, it will be another perfectly average hire and that's fine. I just thought Crocker was aiming higher, and if this is the landing spot because others above said no, so be it. I just don't see the criteria Crocker expressed being displayed in him.
     
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  13. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    Yeah. But I could see the double Zs becoming an issue if there aren't enough goals. "ZZZZZZ" I'm asleep. That kind of thing.

    ZZ could be for Pizzazz if things go well.
     
  14. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    He also has to be an absolute grinder. Cruised over to Europe with nothing in 2000 after playing Ivy League soccer, carved out a lower level playing career for himself, and worked his way up to head coach at two different Bundesliga clubs, overachieving at times.

    All without any connections to US Soccer or MLS in any way. Pretty impressive.

    That was still a time when Yanks Abroad roster was desolate and Landon Donovan was crying himself to sleep every night in Leverkusen.
     
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  15. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No we got Jurgen because Sunil had a massive man crush.

    It's disingenuous to talk levels like that. But if I were a high school, absolutely I'd look at him over someone who overachieved at another school. You can't take comparisons from one level and apply it to another without losing context, that's my entire point. If contextual arguments are where the hiring margins are then the search didn't do so hot. I feel like this is coming off as me trashing him, so I'd like to reiterate he's a good manager, and I'd prefer him to some of the names that leaked out, but for me, I need more than overachiever. Just my criteria.
     
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  16. Mt Stone@

    Mt Stone@ Member

    Apr 30, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    #1291 Mt Stone@, Aug 3, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2024
    I hope this is true. I think Matarazzo is a very good manager. Best American coach and its not even close. He is a proven Bundesliga manager over multiple seasons with multiple teams. Got Stuttgart Promoted and all the way up to 9th in the Bundesliga the following year. Saved Hoffenheim from relegation, and got them into European competition this season.

    He can be tactically flexible and and pragmatic and he knows how to get more out of a squad than what he has. He knows the European game very well, coming out of that group of german coaches under Ragnik and Nagelsmann, both of which did very well with their respective squads this summer in the Euros.

    I know everyone wants a big foreign coach, but I think in the international game there are some real positives to having a coach be the same nationality as his players. He will understand the squad and the country culturally speaking. As an American he will really care about the american player and the american game. He's not some mercenary here only for that big pay check. And he will understand much better from day one all the problems that come along with the American game and the American Federation. I think there are reasons why no country has ever won a WC with a foreign manager.

    I also like the fact that is an American that came up through the game outside the American system... he is not beholden to US Soccer and the MLS. He's not a part of the good ol boys club, and doesn't need these people to stay in the game.

    The only real downside i see to this guy is his inexperience in the international game. He has only ever been a club manger. But hell we just spent six years on a guy whose only level of experience prior to the USMNT was a couple decent seasons in Columbus and sacked from second division in Sweden.
     
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don’t think this isn’t also true of someone like Nancy?

    Notably Matarazzo came up under Nagglesman who seemed to have no problems adjusting and getting Germany going in a two year period.
     
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  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Richards coming good is more important than the coach selection IMO.
     
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  19. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    I don’t know man, after watching the difference of Emma over Vlatko with pretty much the same player pool…
     
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  20. Crewmudgeon

    Crewmudgeon Member+

    Sep 3, 1999
    Crewdom

    It's all a decoy? Now that France have been eliminated Hervé Renard is available.
     
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  21. Mt Stone@

    Mt Stone@ Member

    Apr 30, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I think bad coaches can do alot more bad to a squad than a good coach can do good. If that makes sense. Vlatko was a bad coach. Gregg was a bad coach.
     
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  22. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm confident the federation will choose an ok candidate one way or another, someone who will be a good fit even if not exactly a big name. In fact, I don't want a big name.
     
  23. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It feels like you're conflating two things, but it's also possible I'm misunderstanding.

    • Maybe you think that getting good, sub-trophy results with poor talent means less than winning trophies with (relatively) elite talent.
    • Maybe you think that club results don't map well to national team results.
    You might even be saying there's an interaction effect -- that Zidane or Pep could step into a national team because they're used to winning hardware, but someone like Rino couldn't.

    I don't agree with your conclusion but I want to understand what you're saying on the merits. (I'm with gomichigan, because we're not reasonably targeting winning the World Cup so why should it bother me that someone finishes 6th or 8th as long as they overperform?)

    Well yeah, I've said all along that I prefer a B+ international track record to an A-/A club record.
     
  24. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    He hasn't struggled since '21-'22. Last two seasons he has scored I believe 25 in his last 45 starts for Norwich. Not Pukki level but still not bad and a good bounce back overall. We don't know what he and Wright are yet, still, but they've shown the ability to belong, that's certain.
     
  25. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only to people who know very little about German NT.

    Klinsmann managed the GNT while Lowe was his hand picked assistant/head trainer. Lowe was fired from the Austrian BL before JK selected him.

    Lowe managed the German NT while Hansi Flick was his assistant/head trainer. Flick was a 44% manager at Hoffenheim when he got the German assistant job.

    Flick won the WC as an assistant to Lowe, went on to a 84% and trophies at Bayern but underperformed managing Germany to only a 48%. Flick is the new manager at Barcelona while Lowe is still without a job 3+ years after Germany.

    You never know and records don't tell the whole story.
     
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