Next Coach 2.0 (2024-26)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 12, 2024.

  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Potentially 1-2 more if we add a January camp (which I think we should do).
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 6 million we are paying Pochettino isn’t actually too bad. Though obviously helped by the fact he’s getting a significant pay out from Chelsea.

    The below is what the Athletic article said about Griffin’s investment. I do wonder if he will invest in an MLS expansion team in the future. He can certainly afford to.

    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5755854/2024/09/10/mauricio-pochettino-usmnt-us-soccer/

    As the men’s managerial search got underway, a donor to U.S. Soccer reached out to billionaire Ken Griffin, who has given more than $2 billion to charity and has established a civic engagement initiative called Griffin Catalyst for his personal philanthropic and community impact initiatives.

    Griffin has long had a connection to the sport. He played soccer growing up, his children did the same and in 2022 he joined the Ricketts family in a bid for Chelsea. Notably, Griffin has also financially supported American soccer initiatives, including donating $8 million in recent years to the U.S. Soccer Foundation to build 50 mini-pitches in Chicago and another 50 in the Miami-Dade area.

    The donor connected Griffin to U.S. Soccer, and Griffin agreed to donate a substantial amount toward the men’s national team program and the hire of a new coach.

    “Soccer is one of the most popular sports in America,” Griffin said in a statement. “I am excited to join my fellow Americans in supporting our teams’ efforts to triumph in the upcoming World Cup and beyond. When our players do well on the pitch, it expands the reach of this great sport. These athletes also have a powerful opportunity to be influential role models for millions of American children by exemplifying the values of teamwork, dedication, and perseverance.”
     
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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think we could have asked for a better hire.....................(it would be a real short list).

    If we want to complain about anything, its that we wish he'd have been in place for the September window.

    ........................but we understand that the logistics of the hire were difficult to work thru.
     
  4. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least for USSF to get their money’s worth!
     
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  5. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He's a funny one.

    Donates to a ton of causes that I also support, and paid to separate and upgrade the 18-mile-long biking and running path along Lake Michigan in Chicago, which is a huge benefit to me personally.

    But he also has political brainworms and horrible instincts about who to support. He alone spent $418 per vote on Richard Irvin's failed 2022 gubernatorial campaign. $50 million for about 120,000 primary votes, guy lost by 42 points. Might as well have lit that all on fire.
     
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  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  7. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to go down the political rabbit hole here. I'll just say that does very slightly taint the news for me, but I guess every dollar he donates to The USSF, is a dollar he's not donating to causes I find detestable
     
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
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  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Landon's cropped up a bit, to me, I feel like his stories come down to 3 separate things:

    #1: There's was always a group (and I was a part of it) that found it inexplicable that he never really wanted to test himself fully in Europe. That he always seemed to err towards comfort in America. The twin piece is underestimated w/that, as is having chosen to go to a place in Germany that was always a bad fit for a SoCal.

    #2: He then proceeded to play in virtually every single full international and the vast majority on and off cycle Gold Cup's, Cupcakes and seemingly every single game from late '01 through 2011 or 2012ish. He literally never had a national team break ever for a decade straight. I think it wore him completely out eventually.

    #3: He was a guy where mental health became a serious serious issue in 2011-2012. It wasn't about how much he cared about the game and playing, he was literally in Big "S" mode, where he was at risk of not existing anymore. I don't know what happened w/him in that time period, but as he talked about it a handful of times, he wasn't just "off" soccer then, he was seriously at risk of losing his life, so it wasn't a mental toughness thing, it was a serious mental health crisis at the time. I think people underestimate that angle of it sometimes, and imagine that this issue related to his commitment as a player when it was entirely an off the field problem, that impacted his ability to play the game as a side effect which is why he had to step away...His life, mental health in general and career were all at risk.


    None of the current problems that we're aware of are like that. What we have instead appear to be players that simply aren't mentally engaged or committed to consistently show up and haven't been really since the World Cup. Donovan was never that, until he left in '12 and he left precisely because he reached a point that was a corollary to the current issue.
     
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  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good details in this article. This was also interesting

    When word spread of the USSF's criteria, dozens of résumés were sent from all around the world, including some of the biggest names in soccer. Thomas Tuchel and Zinedine Zidane were discussed by the federation as part of a candidate pool that also included Pochettino, Matarazzo, Vieira, Rafa Benitez, Xavi, Thierry Henry, Marcelo Gallardo and Graham Potter. All contenders were talked through the process and U.S. Soccer's expectations for the eventual hire.

    The Athletic article also mentioned Pep and Thomas Frank (and I assume Pep said he doesn’t know what he’s doing with City yet and won’t for awhile).

    The article also said there’s a shared desire to ultimately extend for a four year cycle.
     
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  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Its kind of interesting to think about.

    The Red Sox broke the curse essentially after the disastrous '03 playoffs when Boston fans wrote off the team, and essentially in '04, you have Pedro's "they're my daddy" comment in September, the team calls itself "the idiots," nobody believes in them, and then they decide to change the narrative with Schilling, the bloody sock and all that.

    A year or two later the White Sox win it when nobodies looking, ending their nearly equally long 80+ year black sox curse, I think partly because a lot of the players are from other cultures and don't know, nor care about the curse.

    A few years after that the only reason the Indians fail to beat the curse against the Red Sox and late Cubs and their curse is horrendous injury issues that destroy their pitching staff's (no Cliff Lee in what was it, '07?, then in '16 they're missing I believe 3 of 5 rotational starters)....which ties into the Cubs curse-they've got the good red sox karma from their GM, and the good fortune of the Indians entire pitching staff being smashed by injuries so they can turn a 1-3 deficit into a 4-3 WS win, ending a 100+ year curse.

    My Caps in '18? How do they do it? Pretty simple, after having the worst playoff track record of choking ever, in just 40 years of existence, they choke again in '17, everyone gives up, and w/no pressure and things breaking their way, they end their curse in '18 (its probably the least well known curse ever, w/them having bult a sub .500 all time record in the hockey playoffs when up by multiple games (2-0 or 3-1).....

    It really does seem like what matters to break curses and bad luck trends is players that don't have the pressure from fans, or themselves are unaware or don't care about the issue because the chief source of the "bad luck" seems to be a co-mingling of fan terror, and player anxiety. When both are removed, the natural give and take randomness of sports seems to be engaged. The Red Sox fans were not engaged in '04, they had given up, the players suddenly had no pressure, and liked the idea of doing the impossible and did it. The Black Sox/White Sox didn't give a ---- in '06, they just thought they were better and proved it. The Cubs in '16 were just better after the Indians were shattered by injuries and even drew good luck w/the rain shut down interrupting Indians momentum, the caps in '18 didn't have to worry about fans and chokes because the fans had written off the team.

    So Poch should just go in there, and rebuild it. There will be little to no fan pressure (honestly, what pressure? It's not like the USMNT fan base or media is even 1/100th as brutal as in Argentina, Brazil, England, Germany, Italy, France, Spain etc) because after the Copa America, and w/pricing, nobody is gonna give 1/10th of a ---- about the '25 Gold Cup or any friendlies either (I said that post Copa America fans would not care at all, certainly I didn't, and the Copa America was the only thing between 2023 and the WC, and w/them ----ing the bed in such horrifying manner, there would be zero fan interest afterwards, and sure enough, nobody came to this friendly window)...so Poch will be able to focus the team around performance and not have to worry about fans (other than empty stadiums) and pressure. So its kind of like the Red Sox down 0-3 in '04, or the Caps in '18, the fan base is not remotely engaged. They do not care, they see these guys as entitled losers who can't even play with Panama, or Canada or New Zealand, let alone real soccer teams, so the average fan has turned the team off, and the engaged fan is sickened, and either ignoring it, or not really engaged one way or the other, beyond acknowledging how pathetic the team is.

    So essentially Poch and the players can construct whatever they want w/o fan or media pressure for the next 21 months or so....its all up to them because the fans don't care. That can either motivate you or not. They need to motivate themselves and part of what I like with Poch is simply the team getting etch a sketched....players will now have to fight for their '26 relevance because Berhalter and the old set up is gone, Poch has zero reason to be loyal to anyone. Everyone will have to earn their spot. Its a good recipe for players recommitting themselves. Even the Gold Cup itself, w/its rumored array of international invites having been flushed down the toilet is back to being a ridiculous joke of a tournament as it features zero teams with QF relevance in the past 22 years, and no teams that have even advanced to extra time of a knockout game in a decade (and that was in an --- kicking fluke of a game)...so even the Gold Cup is immaterial, if they lift the trophy nobody will care, everyone knows lifting the trophy means ---- all when it comes to WC and Copa America caliber performance.

    So the pressures off, except that which they put on themselves, and which the coach puts on them. Its a recipe for reaching new heights, or new lows, depending upon the players themselves. It will be quite interesting to see how they handle it.
     
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  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It's just through the '26 world cup right?
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It'll be interesting. Despite the interest, I do think that Crocker's relationship (and Hayes' apparently) with Poch played a large role, as well as his contract situation with Chelsea.

    I do wonder if any of those other names would have really been interested with either the old salary dynamics or even the $6M with hedge fund assistance (except for Henry and Vieira, which, why are they in this group?).

    I would love for Poch to stay longer. I wonder if the money will be there.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If Donovan showed up, he played super hard and focused. He was a killer for the national team.

    When he felt he couldn't, he took himself out of the running, instead of showing up and going through the motions.

    I always think it is ridiculous that people blast him for this. That's far better than what a bunch of our players just did during Copa.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    For now. He does seem very mentally invested, but we will see how that goes ... and how the financial dynamic goes past that. Right now, he's basically getting paid something close to $20M for two years ... when Chelsea isn't supplementing, will there be a middle ground.

    The other big thing will be if Crocker and he can manage the dynamic with the Federation. Poch is here in part, it seems, because his last two bosses were dysfunctional messes (and one could argue the same at the end with Spurs).

    US Soccer is by definition a permanent dysfunctional mess once you get to the Federation aspect. But Crocker can shield him a bit, and if he's not a complete ass like Klinsmann -- and he seems way too touchy feely for that -- I think the closer in bureaucracy will likely mostly respond well.

    But even a world class coach is not likely to get AYSO and USASA and all those orgs to agree on shit, so Crocker has to find a way to keep him sheltered from that kind of shit. Too many egos in this kind of space.
     
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  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Me too. Clint mentioned Donovan taking stick in the past and Dempsey too, maybe another guy in one of these threads. I don't really remember Dempsey ever getting stick, other than the Dempsey/Donovan best ever USMNTer debate, and that's not really stick.

    For Donovan all it ever seemed to come down to me was w/regards to refusing to go off to Europe to test himself against the best, other than going to Bayer in '99-'01, and in '04-'05ish? People, myself included, were upset that he didn't want to play in the top competitive leagues in the world, I just never understood why you'd be okay w/never quite testing yourself against the best like so many others had. It was weird, really weird. Any prospect worth a damn in Europe in their basketball leagues wants to compete in the NBA after all, why wasn't Donovan like that? Seemed too self-satisfied, but that was purely disatisfaction w/him maxing his club career.

    In terms of his international career it is patently obvious he gave us everything he had until it actually started impacting his desire to remain alive, and then he decided to "walk the earth like Kane" and got himself right, gave us one more El Tri killing Dos a Zero in '13 etc. I've never had a complaint about what he did for the USMNT, he even gave us inadvertent high comedy with the water fountain photoshoot moment. No complaints, anybody who does? That's a them problem. Not a Donovan problem. Weird off the field comments that he and Howard have in reference to dual nats, that's a separate thing.
     
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  17. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Crocker's ability to pull him and Hayes is definitely suggestive of the fact that when Crocker isn't being hampered from others, he can really get ---- done. The fact that he pulled those hires is INSANE.

    Let me add one other piece worth noting.

    I've been posting about the USWNT's decline since '22 or '23, and one of the things I mentioned that was a perfect illustration and predictor of the decline was the crap performance of the women's youth teams, dominant from around 2002-2012, they both turned to horse manure over the previous decade. The U17's being hot garbage in every tournament since the inaugural one 12 years ago, the U20's having been miserable failures in 3 of the past 4 U20 cycles (and the one they weren't god awful, they were just very average in). Well, Hayes grabs the women's team and immediately wins Gold, and now we see the U20's advancing to the knockouts for only the second time in their past 5 major tournaments. They play Mexico tonight in the knockouts after Mexico upset them in Concacrap U20 WC qualifying back in '23. It's a chance to reestablish their dominance, and after defenestrating Paraguay in a potentially win or go home Group stage finale, I'm hopeful. The women basically have a chance to make a QF run for only the 2nd time since Obama's first term as president. Exciting times :).
     
  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Henry and Vieira definitely stick out as not really fitting with the others. But I don’t think Gallardo would have been too much of a reach on stuff like salary.

    Potter would have been an interesting alternative if Pochettino had said no, but I’m guessing he’ll want to wait out the England job (as he’d be the top candidate I think if Pep and Klopp say no).

    Xavi and Benitez I don’t know if they’d have ultimately said yes, but neither has an obvious next club move. But mostly this seems like some of the coaches they had conversations with and having conversations is a promising thing in terms of interest but it’s not the same as someone agreeing or being willing to take the job.
     
  19. Hagbard Celine

    Hagbard Celine Member+

    Oct 7, 2003
    Simsbury, CT
    Didn't he get some when he came back to MLS?
     
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  20. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Hopeful comparison that has probably been made 1000 times already. Last year the women's team looked rudderless. No ideas and little passion. The frequently repeated trope "Europe has passed us by." We got a new manager who muuuuuch more competent than the prior one, et voila.

    The gap between Poch and Berhalter/Varas is enormous. We can hope that the men exhibit a major turn around.

    And, tons of credit to the Fed for bringing in two managers that were of a caliber wayyyyy beyond any reasonable fan's expectations. Props to Cindy & Co.
     
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  21. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don't think he's going to want something in return politically for this "philanthropy"?
     
  22. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe? Though the question is what The USSF could tangibly offer him

    I'm a huge college football fan and this is very booster like of him. There are a few boosters who have actually bought some influence within athletic programs for things like coaching decisions etc. but for the most part they're just bored millionaires (or billionaires) who like to be able to brag to their friends at the country club about brining in the star linebacker or just like the ego boost of having the head football coach kiss their ass at a fundraising dinner once every few months.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    This is not really an argument with your post, but rather it sort of encapsulates the issue I have with the concept of "Europe" and how our fanbase treats it as a sort of unassailable single point of reference.

    "Europe" doesn't make anyone better. Practice improves a player. Better coaching can improve a player. Practice improves a player. Better competition can serve as a motivator and a standard to aspire to. And Practice improves a player.

    But if the situation you're playing in doesn't necessarily motivate you, or even de-motivates you, that isn't necessarily going to make you improve. If you are self-motivated, it doesn't really help. If you are unwilling to put in extra work, playing against better players won't help much.

    Landon gets truck for not staying in Europe, but it is clear his early forays over were terribly demotivating and unhelpful from a coaching aspect. I don't think a ton of players would have done well, but Landon clearly didn't respond well. And when we went over later, he was great at Everton.

    But in MLS, Landon was motivated. He improved his game. He worked hard. He did have pressure that a many of our European players don't have, as well. Oh, sure, he had a guaranteed spot and he was in his home culture, but the dude was THE guy on many of his teams. When Landon had a bad game, it hurt the team. Yunus Musah can have a bad season and Milan won't bat an eye.

    I feel like I'm picking on him a lot, but let's look at Malik Tillman, who I really do like a lot. He's in Europe. People give him mass points for starting for a very good team, competing against good players in practice and getting a Champions League match once in a while.

    But he's also only played in countries where he speaks the language, and the Netherlands is super culturally similar. He's only played for three teams, all of which (including Bayern youth) were basically stacked talent-wise against their opponents.

    If Malik has a shitty game, PSV still wins 4-0. Even worse, he's playing on a team in a league that doesn't require him to get better at the parts of the game he struggles with. He doesn't have to defend play in and play out with PSV. He can take a whole half off. When the team is down, they don't turn to him.

    If Malik wants to meet his top potential, he either needs to go be THE MAN at the 10 for a team that relies on him or he needs to slide back to an 8 and play a more complete game. Is Tillman challenging himself at PSV? I'd say not. They have like 6 games a year that are hard.

    I'd argue somewhat similarly for Pepi. He's not expected to beat out De Jong. I'm not sure he even can. He gets to come on, score easy goals against tired, crappy teams, and he's waiting out the string. I don't think that's all his fault, and if he's SELF-MOTIVATED, he's pushing himself knowing that when De Jong slips, they can just as easily buy another top player than give him a shot.

    But is he? I don't know.

    There are certain players I've seen really improve at very specific things over the last few years. Christian has become MUCH better in front of goal. Sargent has really improved his touch and one time scoring. Walker Zimmerman added a long pass. Weah improved his positional discipline a crapload. Jordan Morris added a left foot. Aidan Morris added some nice passing. Jedi has improved his crossing ... a bit.

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some and I'm sure I don't know enough to see some. But if I look at that list ... it's all guys I'm not worried about their work ethic no matter what team they are on.

    Our fans and players care far too much about team choice than working to get better. I see this all the time in other sports -- the consistency at which college / pro basketball busts are the same guys who say "My goal is to be drafted" rather than "my goal is to win a title / be an all star" is insane.

    I think a LOT of our guys who are in Europe at 20 think they've MADE it already. Instead of realizing they should have just gotten started.


    * Of note, there are always a few European basketball all stars that don't want to come to the NBA who then show out pretty well in the Olympics or World Championships. Not many, but some.
     
  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Box seats. Getting to meet players. Having Crocker return his phone calls. I don't think it is going to be more than that.

    There were multiple sources of funding. I bet he gave like $2M, which is peanuts to him.
     
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  25. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    NIL at some schools is basically legalized booster $ that used to be illegal
     

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