Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by BocaFan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Ariaga his attempt and calls again a good example of the handicaps at play.

    As notable example: he leaves out the veteran Cruijff while for example the teenager Maradona is in (for the second half of 1970s) and Matthaus will be in four times at this rate.

    World Soccer's own Brian Glanville:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    .... while also still doing it against the good teams.

    Not good enough for a mention? The tendencies and handicaps are strong.
     
  2. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #7702 celito, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    1 - They may not be united culturally speaking, but they might be united and have similar views against a Latin player. Specially if they have the same view as you with regards to Latin culture. Again, just a quick snapshot of 2010 journalist votes, SA were not voting for Messi. Messi won on captain and manager vote. And it stands that so called European journalists that "actually watch" games this season would have undeservedly given the award to VVD. So it stands that their view seems pretty skewed and as you put it, the hippie vote.

    2 - Another point is that SA doesn't really have the voting numbers to really skew votes that much.

    3 - About Dutch footballers, perhaps it has little to do with some conspiracy but more to do with media hype. Not many Dutch footballers have gotten much hype or had a marketing machine behind them. RVN was really good, but to be honest, back then, the EPL was not a thing in SA. Nobody cared for it much. EPL gets attention nowadays and it's rated as a top league. So players doing well in that league got no visibility in SA. Even CL wasn't what it is today.

    4 - Correct me if I am wrong, but before Balon d'Or merged with FIFA, weren't only European journalists allowed to vote for the award ? Somebody maybe can double check that.

    Edit: I checked and up until 2006 ....

    "The 2006 Ballon d'Or, given to the best football player in Europe as judged by a panel of sports journalists from UEFA member countries"

    So please with the victim over the past 25 years. It was only in 2007 that the "latin blok" has had any "influence".
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #7703 PuckVanHeel, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    You're confusing and conflating a few things. I already stated above before 2007 only European journalists voted. I've posted the link showing how the continents did post-2007.

    The idea the CL wasn't big back then looks wrong. It already generated more money than the World Cup (since 1994 in fact) and several players have ranked that high based on CL succes, while not doing that good domestically.

    You're kind of right about the marketing thing, but that fits into what I mean. I see now MOTD has excluded a great sliding tackle by VvD, with which he corrected a Keita turnover. Had he been John Terry this last man tackle makes the highlights for sure.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
     
  5. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Fine. So not sure why you said "last 25 years" when referring to Dutch players not finishing top 3. For half of those years it was all European voters.

    When I said it wasn't big, I meant it wasn't that big in SA and globally.
     
  6. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    His relatives ? That's worthy opinion ? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #7707 PuckVanHeel, Dec 9, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Yes, but that doesn't contradict what I said. The expansion to Eastern Europe (and the break-up into many different states) has made it harder. The further expansion to the rest of the world even more so. The same happened with pure jury sports (figure skating in the days gone by) and with singing competitions where bloc voting is an accepted given.


    I think you underestimate the money that was already involved (compared to the World Cup) and overestimate the current amount of SA viewers, relative to the much higher European viewer density, the viewers for a euro or World Cup final, and what the number was before.

    Obviously it helps when Brazilian players themselves get involved. Ronaldinho was pretty much the first with a big role in a win (Rivaldo/Ronaldo did very little in the KO stages during their career). The number of Brazilian players with 30+ CL goals is lower than what one naturally expects I'd say. If Neymar plays in a final then of course the viewing and interest is a great deal higher.

    But look at how revered Redondo is for example in South America, often boosted as the greatest 'number 5' since the golden age. The main thing he has is Champions League success, not so much the league or national team performances. And we might say, harshly, he was just a role player to support less glorified players as Raul Gonzalez. When he won the CL it made the frontpages of newspapers if I'm not mistaken. He was pretty much the first Argentine with a prominent role in a CL win (post-1992 I mean).
     
  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You really underestimate how big the CL has gotten in SA. It went from not being on TV at all to being discussed in sports TV programs almost every day (when there are games). Regardless, it doesn't matter how big it is today compared to Europe (which is obviously bigger audience) ... my point was that it used to be non-existent interest to pretty big today.
     
  9. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Lol. His inner circle must be very trustworthy
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This goes a bit astray anyway. What you said is this was a factor behind RvN his low-ish ranking, but only European journalists voted as you noticed later. Funnily, a survey done by El Grafico - traditionally and logically with many South American journalists asked - had him higher and #2 overall (behind Zidane).

    Without wanting to have a yes-no game here, I think important is whether the players are involved. Ronaldo Nazario played the UEFA Cup final so they followed that and what came to his career path. Pablo Aimar goes to Valencia and El Grafico immediatelly follows that on their cover (in 2000-01, his first season, he had #22) irrespective of playing Champions League or not.

    Brazil's first CL winning player was Roberto Carlos. The next starting players to do so were Elber (2001), Dida (2003), Alberto and Derlei for Porto (2004), Ronaldinho and Edmilson (2006). Then you have also some substitutes like Roque Junior and Paulo Sergio but that's basically it.

    Naturally the interest and attention for the competition is not as high as it can be. Seven Brazilians won the Champions League until 2002 (including the ones not named in the squad), twenty-two did in the second decade until 2012. Twelve more have done since then.
     
  11. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yo wtf is with CL being replaced by European Super League and some kinda shit.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That's basically legalized match fixing, so that they don't need Sophia Loren or fabricated VAR images any longer.
     
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  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's not gonna happen, I don't think. Not anytime soon anyway.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    #cartelreferees #thefix
     
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  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I have a solution, exclude teams from outside these 5 leagues in the future so there is no crying.
     
  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    You are such a pathetic person with a victim mentality.
    Mobs, conspiracies, biases, cartel, fixing,.. what's next?
     
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  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Who knows, maybe something you Croatian guys are good at: the biggest genocide on European soil since WW2 - in which you also had a role as friend of Germany.

    Maybe your own Dinamo Zagreb doing a wink at Lyon (like in 2011).

    Meanwhile:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...aks-is-exposing-corruption-in-european-soccer

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/sustain-the-excellence-ajax-2019-20.2103882/page-27

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2019-2020-uefa-referee-discussion-rs.2104167/page-28

    Celito with all his lies has to be the first one to wash his mouth. Deceitful poster of a thoroughly deceitful and factfree country.
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The greatest magic trick of 'El Ilusionista'
    Andres iniesta


    Making the ballon dor podium in 2010
     
  19. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There is no stat for keeping the ball in dangerous areas or overloading one side and then finding a player on the other side

    iniesta is a midfielder like no other I can think of

    he may not have a lot of direct assists etc but he was integral to Barca in the opposition half
     
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