Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by BocaFan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You sound like an intelligent person when you want to sound like an intelligent person, but the above post, is again the usual Real Madrid self-induced coma of idiocy.

    Isco scores goal but the goal is ruled off for alleged off-side -- Quite probably the most repetitive and traditional referee call in this sport, this is very true today, but this was actually a lot more common in the 1990s. It is probably the referee mistake that I hate the most, because it is BY FAR the most recurrent mistake, and it's easy to understand why that is. If this happens 3 times in one game vs. the same club, that would be suspicious. But just one goal by Isco that the referee ruled off for off-side, that happens all the time, against all clubs, big or small.

    Penalty invented by Robben -- One of the most normal and traditional calls in modern football. Referees need the benefit of replays in order to efficiently get this out of the sport, or at least efficiently reduce the consistency of it. But as it is, it is an extremely normal referee call.

    Vidal not given a yellow card for a so-called "hard tackle" that deserved in your opinion a yellow card -- One of the most normal and traditional calls in football. I don't understand why you complain about this so much, especially when Casemiro was exactly as rough and reckless as Vidal was. Sergio Ramos gets away with murder all the time... SMH.

    Vidal shown red for a perfect tackle -- Not a normal referee call, in fact, a very very unusual decision, and especially unusual in a "rough game" where BOTH Casemiro and Vidal were allowed to be rough. But only one of them saw the red card for what was a perfect tackle... You do the math.

    Ronaldo scores a goal, but he is at least 7 feet off-side -- Again, a very unusual referee call. Bad off-side calls are very normal WHEN the off-side is decided by a margin of inches or by one feet, NOT when Ronaldo is SEVEN FEET OUT OF THE PLAY. This is just not normal, and I don't see any other big clubs getting these dubious calls anywhere near as consistently as Real Madrid.

    Penalty Kick in minute 93 of the second leg of a Champions League Quarter Finals -- Not a normal referee call, in fact, I do not remember the last time I witnessed such an event, in fact, I probably had never actually watched a Champions League KO game being decided by a PK in minute 93. Even if you think it was a penalty kick (which is objectively absurd, but whatever), that is simply not a normal occurrence in a football match, it is not a normal referee call, and it is especially not normal when you acknowledge the fact that Real Madrid is the same club that also benefited from extremely not normal calls vs. Bayern Munich 2017.

    I'm sorry but Real Madrid, Zidane's Real Madrid, is benefiting from a Grade A referee bias. Barcelona, even in their "uefalona" days, was not getting that many consistent bad-but-convenient calls by referees. And I think that deep down you are aware of that fact, but you are either too proud to admit or too biased to understand that your club, Real Madrid, is disgracing this sport and disgracing La Liga. As usual, we disagree about self-explanatory facts.

    I don't blame Real Madrid for Vidal's failed penalty kick, nor for Griezmann's failed penalty kick. But I blame Real Madrid fans for thinking that NORMAL REFEREE CALLS somehow justify EXTRAORDINARY REFEREE CALLS... You can't justify the extraordinary with the ordinary... So what if Robben dived and was a rewarded with a penalty kick? Any other day Ronaldo would be the diver and the executioner of the penalty kick. Hell, yesterday it was Vazquez's who dived and was rewarded with a penalty kick, which itself is normal, except when you understand the actual context that it is a second leg KO game in the 93 minute of the game, which adds to the fact that Dybala's "dive" was not also a penalty kick, because Dybala is not a Real Madrid player LMAO. Long story short: there is something very very rare with many of the calls that have gotten Real Madrid out of tough spots in 2017 and now again in 2018 and who knows how far Zidane's magic will last. You can't explain that lucky consistency away on the basis of extremely ordinary referee mistakes.
     
  2. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #3402 leadleader, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    Real Madrid vs. Barcelona has not happened since 2011 in the Champions League. And in 2011, Barcelona eliminated Real Madrid fair and square; if you want to blame anyone or anything, you should blame Mourinho's tactics for your red cards and your yellow cards in that 2011 Champions League Semi Final.

    Barcelona vs. Chelsea 2009 was almost 10 years ago... IT HAPPENED NEARLY A DECADE AGO... LITERALLY... ALMOST A DECADE AGO... When will the mythical Ovrebo stop being an excuse for events that occurred in 2017 and again in 2018?? Real Madrid has 2 Ovrebos already in 2017 and 2018 and the Champions League 2018 isn't even over yet LMAO... The fact of the matter is that "uefalona" never dominated the Champions League on the basis of REPEATED suspect referee favors. Manchester United 2009 was not cheated. Inter 2010 was not cheated. Real Madrid 2011 was not cheated. Manchester United 2011 was not cheated. Chelsea 2012 was not cheated. Bayern Munich 2013 was not cheated. Atletico Madrid 2014 was not cheated. Bayern Munich 2015 was not cheated. Atletico Madrid 2016 was not cheated. Juventus 2017 was not cheated. Roma 2018 was not cheated (and Messi was clearly fouled inside the penalty area). When the going got tough, Barcelona won fair and square, with open play goals, not with penalty kicks and not with extremely suspect red cards. One anomaly of a game vs. Chelsea 2009 does not change the overall reality. But whatever... Why should I expect a Real Madrid fan to admit to anything that resembles reason? You will probably bring up Ovrebo again in 2019 by that time of the year where Real Madrid predictably gets a suspicious referee favor.

    At any rate: Bayern Munich 2017 felt cheated... Juventus 2018 feels cheated... This is not normal... Barcelona at any point between 2009 and 2016 would have won more Champions League titles with referee bias of that magnitude. Barcelona never benefited from such a CONSISTENT THEME at the Champions League. Zidane's Real Madrid already has 2 Ovrebos in 2 years... it's just not normal... and no amount of "uefalona" will make it any less abnormal.
     
  3. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    #3403 robnycus, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    Miguel Angel Scime - Director of the Department of Refereeing in Argentina -
    "This was an infraction for the referee to decide the sanction of penalty. I want to remind everyone that in the process to make this decision the referee must observe that the player displayed a lack of attention and acted without precaution when disputing he ball. It was an imprudent contact. The risk was taken by the defender to get his objective and the rules do not measure intentions but results that deserve technical & disciplinary sanctions.

    The ex- referee Javier Castrilli: "To pretend to play a ball which is at chest hight of an adversary is, in its own, a dangerous play that must be sanctioned with a indirect free kick. The physical contact transforms it into a direct free kick. It was a penalty for Real Madrid. Everything else are simple popular beliefs tainted by positive or negative emotions."

    Ángel Sánchez, director of the referee training school in Argentina:
    "Is a penalty and a card to push from behind. A player that comes from behind with his arms towards one that clearly has the possession of the ball is an incautious act that is clearly sanctionable. I think that the referee also should have sanctioned the player because it was a clear goal opportunity"

    Source: El Clarin
    https://www.clarin.com/deportes/fut...id-abrio-grieta-mundo-futbol_0_r1DSGxToG.html

    L'Equipe : (headline)
    In added time ronaldo has transformed a justified penalty
     
  4. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    #3404 robnycus, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    Just as extremely normal to call the Benatia Vasquez penalty a penalty. To the referees is not even a questionable call.. They know it was the right call.

    If you think this would never be called a penalty in 95-99% of the cases, which is what you seem to be implying, you are being either delusional or intentionally dishonest.

    And by the way.. you actually bitching because it was in the 93rd minute and just for that you think it is not normal. You have the same silly argument that most Italians are making.. all driven my emotion and not logic. Why does it matter if it is the 93rd min.. or the 16th minute and why does the referee have to consider the two teams that are playing.. if he did his calls would be biased and not objective.
     
  5. Afghan-Juventus

    Afghan-Juventus Member+

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Afghanistan
    It’s funny from 2009-2015 Messi’s Barca were getting all the decisions.

    Now from 2015-today it’s all going to Ronaldo’s Madrid.
     
  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    You didn’t prove anything, just cherry picked 7 games and even cherry picked moments within those 7 games.

    I could see why, as a Madrid fan, you would take the Neymar-side of the argument though. Messi has destroyed Madrid throughout his career while Neymar has been very quiet in clasicos.
     
  7. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    I was talking about the knockout CL games for that year.. It was very clear why I did it. We were talking about how messi cannot do it alone.. so highlighting Neymar's contribution to winning that year's CL throphy is very normal. So yeah,. the context of my post was 7 games, those final 7 games that gave Barcelona their last Champions.
     
  8. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Reading the above, maybe the difference is in what you consider a big game vs what he considers a big game. He is looking at CL knockout games, you are looking at games vs Real Madrid.
     
  9. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    2017 vs Bayern does not even come remotely close to what happened here.
    Simply embarrassing..
     
  10. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Barcelona vs PSG happened in 2017. UEFA actually looked into complaints against the referee Aytekin by opening an enquiry post which he could have been demoted. Ultimately they didn't demote him, but strangely he seems to now be refereeing in China, one year later.

    The real funny thing is that Buffon said this after Juve's win over Roma in 2014: “Winners find a way, losers and the mediocre find excuses”.

    While after the QF second leg vs Real Madrid he ranted something like this,
    "It was a tenth of a penalty.

    I know the referee saw what he saw, but it was certainly a dubious incident. Not clear-cut. And a dubious incident at the 93rd minute when we had a clear penalty denied in the first leg, you cannot award that at this point.

    The team gave its all, but a human being cannot destroy dreams like that at the end of an extraordinary comeback on a dubious situation.

    Clearly you cannot have a heart in your chest, but a bag of rubbish. On top of that, if you don't have the character to walk on a pitch like this in a stadium like this, you can sit in the stands with your wife, your kids, having your drink and eating crisps.

    You cannot ruin the dreams of a team. I could've told the referee anything at that moment, but he had to understand the degree of the disaster he was creating.

    If you can't handle the pressure and have the courage to make a decision, then you should just sit in the stands and eat your crisps."
     
    robnycus repped this.
  11. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    ^ He is just angry and hurt... very similar to some of the posts I read here.

    Del Piero said it best. "I believe that in a few days he will say different things about the referee from what he said (on Wednesday night)"
     
  12. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Even in those 7 games Neymar wasn’t better. Maybe the final and against PSG, if that. Messi was easily the best player against City, and the difference against Bayern. But yeah, the front 3 all fed off each other.
     
  13. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Against Bayern.. Neymar scored 3 goals and Messi 2. Both were good.
    - So as you said in the City matches Messi was better, in the PSG matches Neymar was better.. against Bayern both were good. and in the final Neymar was better..

    Slight advantage to Neymar.. he also scored the most goals in those 7 games.
     
  14. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Fair enough, but I believe the original point was whether Messi needed substantial help to win CLs and thus is not as effective without said major help, or if he was more or less carrying the team by himself in Barcelona's successful campaigns and thus has no challenges in being effective when other star performers are not available/out-of-form.

    This stemmed from Xavi-Iniesta being considered as equally important to Barcelona's CL wins under Pep and their absence as a midfield duo being the reason for Barcelona's lack of success since. Against this reasoning the 2015 CL triumph was brought out, but as you suggested above, for 2015, Neymar (along with Suarez) can be considered to be equally important.
     
  15. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Messi got the key goals against Bayern. Not only key but a solo golazo like CR7’s second goal against Juve last week. He was more important by far.

    W/o the Messi goals , Neymar never scores in that first leg. It was a pure counter attack because Bayern had to push forward in search of an away goal.
     
    celito repped this.
  16. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  17. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    #3417 robnycus, Apr 13, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    What is so lovely about this draw is that no barca fan can now say we got an easy draw in the event we get Roma.
    :ROFLMAO:
    I dont really care who we get at this point.

    Salah now has a greater chance at winning the Balon D’or . I think they will make it to the final.
     
  18. DazerII

    DazerII Member

    May 27, 2011
    Bayern vs. Madrid semis is now tiring. Again, and again, and again
     
  19. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #3419 Milan05, Apr 13, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    Sergio Ramos did not face any punishment for running down the tunnnel when he was suspended. Xabi Alonso got a 2 match suspension for doing the same thing in the 2014 final, and missed his first two CL games for Bayern Munich

    With that being said, I can’t wait to see how James Rodriguez plays.
     
  20. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Xabi jumped a barrier and went running to celebrate a goal with his teammates and made it too obvious.
    Ramos was kind of lurking ..
    I am sure Bayern prefer to beat us with a full squad than without one so there are no excuses.
    Coman is non factor really - both Ribery and Roben seem to be healthy and Neuer hasn’t play in about a year.
    Their current keeper is really good also.
    James returning to the Bernabeu will be all over the headlines..
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    This must be the 50th consecutive time Madrid get the second-leg in the Bernabeu. #rigged

    Okay, just checked. 7 of the last 8 random draws gave Madrid the second-leg at home.
    :D
     
  22. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Is not like that helps us much. .. some people think that is an advantage - . I don't see it that way.. We still conceded three goals at home just the other day that we shouldn't have ..
    The one who is getting it easy this year is Liverpool - Porto, City, Roma - they literally will reach the final ,if they get past Roma, without having faced a top 4 team. #rigged.
    City, they already beaten in the league so it wasn't that difficult for them in comparison to the other draws.
     
  23. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Salah's Balon d'Or chances with a massive upgrade after the draw.
     
  24. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    The sun published an article that it was rigged. .Supposedly there were tickets being sold yesterday on a website for Roma vs Liverpool.. lol
     
  25. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Heynckes Bayern team is tactically very flexible, unlike Pep’s Bayern. I don’t see Real Madrid beat this tactically great and flexible Bayern team tbh.
     

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