Again, read history Garber...it could save MLS some huge mistakes! Earn to Return...say it with me amigos. Earn to Return. This saying in Texas is the DL for summing up a hard working Mexican man's plans in 'el Norte'...aka U.S.A. Gentlemen, It would be wonderful for the yankees up in New York to consider this fact. CONCACAF immigrants to 'el norte' view this nation as a place of opportunity. A place where money can be made, saved and sent back 'home'. Then after years of hard work in the U.S.A. The working man can return to his family and live like a king in his old town. He now has greenbacks in an account, several maids and has built a dream house for his people. Even if CONCACAF immigrants (Panchos, Sallies and Ticos) love futbol, they could care less about MLS as they already have a club that they support. If an Italian man and Juve supporter moves to France to make some cash...does he instantly drop Juventus and start supporting the local French side....not a snowballs chance in Hell! Thus targeting CONCACAF soccer fans and looking to them to be a fan base in MLS has been and will continue to be MLS's biggest cluster f uc k. In inner city Houston, MLS needs to go after Arabs, South Americans, and Africans...people that have moved to the U.S. to stay and raise their family. Thus a Nigerian man wants to take his 7 year old to the local MLS match beaciuse he wants his son to experience what he had growing up as a youth. I would never support Club America in MLS. To me CA is the modern incarnation of Chilango (that's people from Ciu. de Mexico for you yankees) lies, greed and arrogance. It was us, la gente de Tejas that told them to stick it and we rebelled. That's what Tejas is! That's our spirit...we don't want to be lied to any more Mexico. Garber and MLS should pick up a history book and apply culture to growing MLS. Soccer is afterall 'the people's game'.
Re: Again, read history Garber...it could save MLS some huge mistakes! this probabaly has to be one of the most ignorant post everrr i bet you dont complain when you see a Mcdonalds in Mexico or something.. but god forbid a foreign product is sold in the US... talk about xenophobic
Re: Re: Again, read history Garber...it could save MLS some huge mistakes! Yeah, he's not too clued into reality. If they, uh, all go back, then, gee, WHY are there so many frickin' Concacaf ex-pats living here? Why is it that their numbers keep expanding if there is such a mass exodus from the US? True, a good many come and go, only to be replaced by others. But once ppl start having kids here, they get established, they stay. They become consumers. US corporations market to them. Mexican corporations market to them. They become a force to be reckoned w/ politically. Yeah, he's also got a pretty idealized, warped notion of Texas "pride". (BTW, all "nationalisms" are warped and idealized to justify the status quo.) That anti-Chilango bs has been maintained in Texas to mask outright disenfranchisement and persecution of the Texas Latino. Pinche Rinches! (That's "F'ing Rangers" [i.e. the law enforcement agency] for ya'll who don' speak Spanish.) In another thread, I called him out to the mat on this issue, but he didn't have the Texas sized gonads to pick up a book, get informed and take me on.
Chivas Web Site Hey Carlos, This is just an open-minded question I wanted to ask. Why when I went on the ChivasUSA Web Site was it all in Spanish? I know we always talk about "nationalism" and "racism" in these posts, but I don't know Spanish and I thought it was kind of exclusionary. I mean, after all, if I want to be able to support the team on one hand it doesn't feel like they appreciate my support on the other. Tell me what you think. peace.
That is an excellent question. If they don't have a duel language site, that will really alienate the English speaking fan.
Re: Re: Again, read history Garber...it could save MLS some huge mistakes! No kidding. 90% of the Mexicans I've known want nothing more than to bring their entire families up here. I'm sure alot of first-generation immigrants, especially illegals, save up money to send back home, that is where the people they are supporting are. Its necessity, not some plot to drain wealth out of the States.
Concerning a Spanish website... If it isn't one ****ing complaint you people have about the goddamn club it's another ****ing complaint. YA!!! YA!!! YA!!!
The problem MLS has with reaching the Latinos is that a lot of them aren't involved in the American soccer culture. As always the case, it takes a generation or two for immigrants to become involved in our culture and when that happens the generation that has joined the culture is just as "American" as anyone else. So having a Chivas USA is not the answer to MLS becoming popular in the Latino community because the people targeted by having a Mexican club in MLS don't care. If you're not involved in the American culture you don't care about MLS and if you're involved in the culture you don't need a Chivas USA to care.
Well well..the defender of Americanista pride is hurt again RDL, Hey man...good to hear from you Chilango Chilito. I was wondering if an Americanista like yourself was gonna come on and post Well you didn't let me down. I'm glad we have your type in Texas. It reminds me of why Mexicans that are from Veracuz, Potosi and other cities are sooo different than anyone that supports that sh!t yellow jersey You don't need to have an illusion of arrogance left over from years of lies and corruption. Santa Anna was your daddy? That's why the first goal from McBride was for the Alamo and the second is for the Reconquista that y'all want! Ha ha ha ha!!!!! To the newbie from UCLA, which flag do you support? What side of the line do you stand on partna? The USA flag that symbolizes greed, government corruption and freedom or the Tricolor y Auguila that symbolizes greed, government corruption at the highest and freedom for the minority rich only? Please respond. Also, CONCACAF immigrants aren't filling Soldier Field, RFK or the Cotton Bowl. Load another bowl if you think "un bien mexicano" can't wait to come to el Norte and go to an MLS game. Mexican sports fans don't care about MLS. That's why that 2-0 World Cup victory was such a slap in the face to the older el Tri men. Tose viejos were left wondering how an 8 year old league could out play an 80 year old league. Mexican men know soccer, they live soccer and a soccer culture is what we still lack in this nation. ITS NOT UP TO CONCACAF IMIGRANTS TO BUILD OUR SOCCER CULTURE. That was my whole point kid. If you want to "call me out" try again rookie. My PM mail is working fine. Dime flaco...como pequenyo es tu palo? Tipo un pitufo...ha ha ha!!! This was a soccer thread until RDL got his feeling hurt like years past. Did I say ALL CONCACAF workers GO BACK...no I didn't. Its gringos like y'all that fall for the myth. Hey Jimmie, why would I want to go to a freakin' McDonalds while in Mexico? If you would want a happy meal that bad and miss out on a new food opportunity....have at it amigo!
That's telling it LIKE it is, xs220. I am happy to see new investors coming in but this has the potential to lay a huge egg in all communities
Re: Again, read history Garber...it could save MLS some huge mistakes! This is "somewhat" true in Colorado. There are a lot of Mexican and CA men who are in the US to work and send money home. But there are probably more immigrants who have married or brought up their families, bought houses, cars, and started businesses. Don't tell me that the people who have made whole neighborhoods in Denver look like Mexico are planning on tearing it all down and going home some day. But in my opinion, the who idea of hispanics being the "holy grail" fans of MLS is a waste of time. The original immigrants still have a lot of loyalty to their home country teams. The kids often become fans of basketball and gridiron football. It's stupid to think that a sports league can "target" a certain group of fans. MLS just needs to do the best possible job it can of building the league. The fans will come.
You'll notice that when Roman Abromovich bought Chelsea, he bought CHELSEA. Chelsea is still chelsea and is still an independent English club. I have no problem with foreign owners in MLS. What I have a HUGE problem with is foreign CLUBS buying what amounts to farm teams in MLS. And also using racism to stock their teams. As I understand it, Chivas USA plans to stock their team with only Mexicans or Americans of Mexican descent. That's racism, and it's illegal. I plan to notify the EEOC of my concerns if this club indeed follows through with this plan. I may be just a fan, but I'll do everything I can to destroy this Chivas fiasco. I do NOT want MLS to be a farm system for Mexican, European or anyone else's clubs. I want MLS to be the best league in the world, period. It'll never be there if all the teams are Mexican farm clubs. It will also NEVER garner any mainstream acceptance in our culture, which should be our ultimate goal. I will NEVER attend an MLS Chivas match or one of any other club that affiliates with a foreign team.
You might wanna check w/ your first grade reading teacher, first. She/he might teach you how to read through a forum b4 you post shite that's been completely debunked over and over and over and over and over again. Gee, last I checked, Chivas Guadalajara has a Mexican only policy. So, how is it that Chivas USA, which has stated it's desire to develop Mexican-AMERICAN players (are they not American?), other US Latinos, foreign latinos, Anglos, etc., will be able to have Mexican AMERICANS, US Latinos, etc. playing on a team that fields only Mexicans? So how is it that Chivas USA would be a farm team? The vast majority of the strong leagues in the world have caps on how many foreigners they can have on their squad. Basically, there is not ONE club in the world that can afford to start an MLS franchise as a "farm team" for their 1st division squad.
Couple of things real quick. First, let's keep in mind that the source of the information (well, the reporter) is Bob Wagman, who has spent more time criticising why MLS isn't the EPL than anything else. He is a prototypical EuroSnob. His cries of the sky falling are no more than that - cries. Second, just so we're clear, the league came out after that stuff from Liewekie and said that Chivas will have to play by MLS' rules, and we haven't heard a thing from Vergara to the contrary since. Third, while there is the potential for stupid, self-centered people who might make mistakes that could lead to long-term problems, I think the league has a good handle on things, and I doubt that it will become the cauldron of hate everyone is fearing. No guarantees, but I sincerely doubt that MLS will have come all this way to try to bring the Hispanic audience to MLS only to then have it fall apart. As far as Club America owning Chicago, why not? Anshutz needs to sell at least three of his teams - soon (well, within three years) - and Chicago is clearly one of the most prized of league teams. (I think I'm gonna' be sick writing this, I am a Burn fan, after all) Constantly in the thick of things, with a strong fan base that would only be improved by the addition of marketing to Hispanic fans. Granted, the league needs to be owned by US interests - for the most part. And they are. The new guy in Colorado, the Hunts in KC, Dallas and Columbus, Kraft in NE, and Anshutz will hold onto one or two teams (LA and DC?) - even with expansion, that is a good portion of the league. But unless Vergara is a bad businessman - and I doubt he is, considering the money he has made in different ventures - it is a good deal.
feel free to translate, the need of more latinos in mls http://www.aldiatx.com/deportes/stories/mlslatinos3_26dia.ART.Dallas.Edition1.61a95.html
Here's my first problem with Chivas...1, what happens when Chivas USA draws Chivas Guadelajara(might have misspelled it) in a Champions Cup match? Does the USA Chivas 'take one for the team?' It's a legitimate concern. 2. If you are a white/black/any other race person in San Diego or wherever this club is going to locate, what is being done to make you feel like you are welcome at this club's games? By specifically targeting a hispanic or any other audience, you are automatically sending a message to everybody else that they are not as welcome as the 'target' group. We're supposed to be building an AMERICAN soccer league here and we're supposed to be trying to make mainstream Americans into soccer fans. How many Padre or Charger fans are going to want to attend matches at this club when its principle identity is with a foreign club? I could go on and on, but I know I'm right so I won't continue to belabor this point. 3. The problem with stocking this club with only Mexican foreign players and only mexican americans, even if they are americans, is that it is racist and illegal. What if some guy was willing to put up the money for a team in Birmingham, Alabama and announced that all of his American players would be white and all his foreigners would be British? How do you think that would go over? How is what Chivas wants to do any less racist than that? I don't doubt that Garber will make them play by the 4 foreigner rule. And if all 4 of them are Mexican, I really don't have a problem with that. I remember in the early 90's when all three of AC Milan's foreigner players were all German. But even then, that wasn't a club policy. Having all of the US players being Mexican Americans is just flat out racist and wrong.
It also seems to me that you have missed the whole issue, all together! pls read the other 5 threads below! is no point in explaining 40 thousand times, if you do not read the other's who said mexican team? who said vergara will do something different (in recruiting) than the rest of the 10 teams in mLS? quote The problem with stocking this club with only Mexican foreign players and only mexican americans, even if they are americans, is that it is racist and illegal. What if some guy was willing to put up the money for a team in Birmingham, Alabama and announced that all of his American players would be white and all his foreigners would be British? end of quote from kansas fan
Re: feel free to translate, the need of more latinos in mls Interesting. I'm not sure I would call someone from Portugal or Spain "Latin American", but that's me. Aping the NFL with their mandatory-yet-sometimes-useless Minority coaching candidate interview policy is somewhat silly, considering that the league also in theory owns the teams too. What'll they do, fine themselves? Does the league need more latino coaches? It can always use good coaches, sure, and I have no qualms with them being Iberian in origin, if they can win and benefit the league and the domestic game. I think the merits of bringing in more latinos to bring a more "latin style" to MLS is debatable. While I imagine it could make the typical Latino football fan in the US more sympathetic to the league, what really matters is making the product better, and considering a certain result from a certain match in a certain Asian nation about 18 months ago, that ain't so certain. (Not to mention our coach is of Italian descent, anyway. Doesn't that count? )
The ski is not falling !!! The only thing we have to worry about is to keep every MLS soccer team with 8 American born soccer players on the field all the time....
That's all I've heard about this club is that Vergara WANTS to have an all Mexican/Mexican-American team and that Garber is telling him he can't do it. But as far as his recruiting goes, there's a big article on the MLS website about how they are recruiting initially in California and Texas and then all their advanced camps will be in Guadalajara. Doesn't sound like a real effort to recruit non-Mexicans if you ask me. And once again I touch on what I said about marketing to the American mainstream...perception is NOT reality, but perception has a huge impact regardless, and if the perception in the mainstream audience and media is that this club is being marketed to Mexicans only, the mainstream will reject this club and it will have a hugely negative impact on establishing this sport as a mainstream part of American culture. Isn't that our goal?
I agree completely with this post and James. Listen, I've said this before, I'm part Hispanic so it has to hit harder - we need US soccer to grow with AMERICANS not Mexicans. Chivas-USA will be devasting to the fundamental growth of American-love for soccer. I wish it wasn't like this, but its just the facts and we need to realize it and stop being in denial. When Pele brought soccer to NY in the 1970's, he didn't try to create a Brazilian market here, he tried to let soccer be exposed to the common American and our youth. Now the MLS is targeting Mexicans living in the US. Mexicans will never give their total 100% loyalty to the MLS over the Mexican league. Why has the goal changed??? And I hate to break it to Garber and the MLS, but Mexican-soccer is the worst and most unattractive style of football in the world.
Yeah, that's an attitude that will foster assimilation... congrats on finding the Chivas forum. Now get to reading so we don't have to repeat what's been said...