Newcastle United transfer rumours and bollox thread 2

Screw that, Read Madrid just signed Robhino. Now's the time to make a play for Owen... .

 

DEAN ASHTON!!!

That is the final time i'm going to recommend him, I'd buy him as a replacement for shearer. I dont want Anelka or Keane. I'd love to get Kujt or Nihat but its not going to happen.

With owen i'm just not sure, he have the money and he'd be guarenteed first team football. If this enough for him and if Real actually do want to sell him is yet to be seen.

 

I had thought that he would not be available until January... something about not moving twice in one year. I've subsequently read that a player can move twice in one year, but not twice in one season... meaning that Ashton is available... now.

I think Ashton would be a great purchase and our long-term replacement for Shearer. But if we bought him I'd like to see the club buy another striker as well.

But how much do you think he'd cost? He's English, so he'll be expensive.

 

Ashton?....I'd not pay over 8m pounds. I think he's worth every penny as well.

I'd also think that we would still need another who it could be i have no idea.

 

You made a suggestion earlier about Ashton and Nihat, or Ashton and Baros. Could be damn good.

I just don't see that NUFC has the funds. If they sold Jenas, they could pull it off. But the club seems determined to hold onto Jenas and to go the 433 route, so I don't think it'll happen.

 

People don't realise just how much money that Newcastle actually had...just remember we could pay 27million last summer..straight away..even Man U couldn't do that. We could easiely afford Ashton and Baros or Nihat.

We've tried 433 before and it just doesn't work unless you have a player like Keane or Makalele

 

I'd read that money was supposed to come from Northern Rock explicitly to buy Rooney. Or are we talking about the same thing?

Do you mean Roy Keane, the "box-to-box" type player?

And is the Makelele you refer to the one at Chelsea? The one that Jose Mourinho had our very own box-to-box type Scott Parker backing up last year?

Scott Parker could be the guy to make it work. Also, Emre played in that system at Inter I believe. So we've the heart of our midfield familiar with it.


I think Souness is going to the 433 because he's got (or is acquiring) the midfield to do it. Boa Morte would provide the team the flexibility to play 442, but as things stand right now the club doesn't really have anyone suited to play wide left. (Well, we've got Zoggy and Milner, but...) Emre and Viana are best in the middle of the field, and 433 enables Souness to play them were they can perform best. Also Boa Morte adds speed and goals (8 last season)

I think Souness is also going 433 because it is fashionable and he sees other teams moving away from the 442: Chelsea, Man Utd., Liverpool.

Whew! Got through that entire screed without calling Amdy Faye the poor man's Makelele.

Doh!

 

well no shit.

 

The term box to box player is a load of toss. It doesn't mean anything

The type of player that i mean, that you need to play 433 is one who doesn't cross the halfway line, just like Makalele did all last season, that's why he never scored, he never had the chance. You need a world class "defensive midfilder" to be able to play 433. If you don't then you can't play it.

Parker and Emre can't be made into that player because they will always drift forwards.

As for the money situation, the club has more money than it lets on, it's just that we have a greedy chairman.

 

Wouldn't be Emre in the defensive role.

It will be Parker, Faye, Butt, or (incredibly) Jenas, I think.

No, not a Makelele in the bunch. But how many clubs have anyone who can compare to him?

 

i've seen emre play and he's just not that kind of player, the same with parker..Faye tried to play there and did well against smaller sides but against the big 5 he didn't stand a chance. Butt won't be there next season and Jenas has been tried in that position and didn't do that well, maybe when he's older and wiser he could play there but not at the moment.

Exactly Makelele's don't grow on trees and that is why no one plays 433

 

Yes, that is what I said. I've seen Emre play as well and I agree (again) that Emre is not that type of player. He won't be playing a defensive role. He's a creative force.

I think you are right about Faye and the bigger clubs. And we may see Newcastle changing tactics against them. Wouldn't be surprised to see NUFC morph into the 4-5-1 Wanderers when it comes to playing Chelsea, Man United, and Arsenal.

 

Preach on!! He's quite young and he managed to score 7 in 16 last term. I think he's only going to get better and he'd be a great purchase. I wonder how much it would take to prise him from Carrow Road.

 

It's a shame Butt sucked so bad after leaving ManU. He would be the perfect D-Mid. I agree that Faye isn't the answer. It may just leave us with a 4-5-1, especially with our lack of luck in getting a striker in the transfer market.

 

I would lump LBM more in the "tempremental" part of that catagory more than anything else. From his bio on Soccernet

"The striker struggled in the top flight, due to his disciplinary problems more than anything. It was claimed he was being unfairly singled out by referees after being sent off against Ipswich and picking up another seven yellow cards over the course of the season.

Disciplinary problems continue to haunt him, he was booked 12 times in 2002/03 and nine times in 2003/04 - during which he was also sent off for a crude challenge on Steve Finnan.

He also accused Duncan Ferguson of making racist remarks to him, of which the Everton striker was cleared."

I don't think his game has cleaned up enough that we wouldn't miss him for a few games during the season. Say at least 1 red and past the 10 on the 5/10/15 yellow suspensions.

Anelka would be the more unsettling presence in the locker room. Although he does pick up the untimely card every once in a while.

Thx,

Jay!

 

It works in Holland but the Prem is too fast. Plus we need a true right winger that won't suck in and lose are shape (Van der Meyde) and that will attack(Milner needs some seasoning yet, maybe in Europe if we make it). We still have too many players that play the same position and not enough in defense and forwards. I fault the Geordie Jabba the Hut and his henchman. Fat ass Fred needs to be shown the door.

 

???

The whole point of a 4-3-3 is not to play out wide-- the midfield packs the center of the pitch.

4-4-2 doesn't really make a whole lot sense right now because NUFC doesn't have anyone who can cross the ball worth ********. The team lacks wingers (Dyer and Milner drift into the midfield; Robert was sold). Signing Boa Morte would give the team a player who can play well wide left when they want or need to play 4-4-2. Otherwise, it's Emre, Milner, or N'Zogbia.

 

NUFC bids on Anelka and Boa Morte: Toon table Boa bid

 

A 4-3-3 will work if you have players that can play wide and attack up top. If you play one of our central mids up top on the wing then chances are they will drift inside and service from the outside will be terrible. Thats why Souness is after Boa Morte because he's perfect for that role on the left, and why I keep suggesting Van der Meyde ( he grew up playing that system) for the right.
I'm tired of our club playing people out position. We don't have the players for that system so it won't work. 4-5-1 is more likely.

 

6m when Fenerbahce demand almost 14m?!? Lovely. I can almost picture a press-conference to address the failure to land a striker. NUFC had better get a striker from somewhere after that low-ball bid. The natives will be restless if the same old sorry-ass 'We tried and made what we felt was a very generous offer' song is played again to explain inability to address the club's most glaring need.

 

Wide and attack up top, forwards-- yes, Boa Morte, Dyer, and Milner would play those roles. But the midfielders do not play wide. Dyer did pretty well as a striker last season and Boa Morte has played striker in the past. Milner started out as a striker.

Yeah, I'm tired of players playing out of position too and that's why we're looking to play something other than 4-4-2 all season. We don't have the wingers. Emre and Viana would wasted out there. Milner and Dyer want to drift into the middle of the pitch when they should be out wide.

But what we do have is a lot of talented, creative central midfielders: and we should use them. You've got to play with the players you have-- the players available shape the tactics.

There are a lot of different 4-3-3s. We might very well be playing more of a 4-1-2-1-2:

Carr--Boum--Bramble--Baba
--------Faye-------------
---Dyer-------Parker------
-------Emre-------------
----Anelka-----Shearer---

or even something like a 4-2-1-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 (Anelka played in this system with the France NT, I think)

Carr--Boum--Bramble--Baba
---Jenas-------Parker------
---Dyer----Viana---Boa Morte----
----------Anelka-----------

I don't think the club is going to play a static 4-4-2 or 4-5-1. (Or, for that matter a static 4-3-3 whatever that might be) Chelsea are awfully fluid switching between 433, 442, and 451. They destroyed us last season after they switched from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 (4-0, I believe. NUFC played well all game and then they clobbered us in the last ten minutes). I think we'll see NUFC playing 4-5-1 against clubs like Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal, but otherwise no. (We played well 4-5-1 against Arsenal and got beat on a freak goal)

We'll be much more aggressive against other teams. We need speed up top to keep the pressure on their backlines: that's why Anelka and Boa Morte are good acquistions, and why Dyer is a good choice up top on the right.

Edit: Jaypro, yeah as you quote. 433 is not defined. There are many different 433s and you've got to play with what you have.

 

Two of the three strikers in a 4-3-3 are really a hybrid wingers.They need to make the runs to the outside and provide service in the box as well as make runs into the box. In Holland the two outside strikers also are expected to track back play defense and show for the ball in the buildup.The two outside midfielders also make overlaping runs on the outside. So there is quite alot of outside play.

Beasley at PSV is a perfect example of the type of player you need as an outside striker in a 4-3-3. I just don't think we have anyone our books suited to play that type of system.

Milner -is the most likely
Dyer- not convinced he could due the job in a 4-3-3 (assuming Shearer is the center forward)
Emre- Not his position
Parker- Cen mid
Viana -Not his postion
You can talk about signings all you want but until there on the books we should play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2(when Dyer and Ameobi are healthy)

 

Wrong
I watched alot of PSV last year and the almost exclusively play 4-3-3 and the outside middies overlaped alot on the wing. Park in particular was pretty effective in that role. It wont work well without wing play

Yes but they have the personal. We don't Robben is a terror in a 4-3-3. Duff, Cole and now SWP are all perfect for that formation. We have six or seven CMs and Milner on the wing. Then we have three strikers on the books. Without any signings Souness would be mad to play a 4-3-3 this year. Again some variation of 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 would fit our personal at present.

 

As I said previously, there a lot of different ways to play 4-3-3. And I don't think the club will be playing 4-3-3 exclusively either. Away from home, against better teams, or against the 451 merchants (Bolton, Everton) we might see more a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-5-1. Hey, or maybe 4-4-2!

But all available evidence points to the fact that NUFC is going to play, as you put it later, some variation of the 4-3-3 in some games.

And I'll say it again, 4-3-3 does not require "wingers". The midfield is not going to play out wide. 4-3-3 is by definition a narrow formation.

NUFC will crowd the central midfield with three players in an attempt to control middle of the field, protect the backline, and hold possession as much as possible. They're not going to have a lot of space work with, but thankfully Parker, Emre, and Viana are all good on the ball and are good passers. (Can't do anything like this with Bowyer)

No, we don't have Makelele, but we do have Parker and Faye who are both excellent ball winners. And one (or both) is going to be in central midfield. Emre or Viana (both excellent passers) will link up with the three forwards. (From what I've seen Emre can win the ball as well.)

Anelka, Dyer, and Boa Morte are going to have to put the defending backline under a lot pressure. If nothing is happening then I think you'll see the club switch to a 4-4-2 within a game. Both are going to have to track back and defend sometimes, but if Dyer and Boa Morte have too much defensive responsibility than we're basically playing a 4-5-1 any way.

So the whole point is to put a lot of pressure on the opposition--- control the midfield and strangle them.

Anelka is the key. He is quick and he can hold the ball. A smaller or slower forward just wouldn't bother the opposition.

-------------------Cech-------------------------------
Fererra---Terry--------Carvahlo--------Gallas
-----------------Makalele-----------------------------
----------Tiago/Cole--------Lampard---------------------
----Duff----------------------Robben------
-------------Gudjohnsen/Drogba--------------------------

No, we can't match that.

But look, if we do not have the wingers to play 4-3-3, we certainly do not have the wingers to play 4-4-2.

4-4-2 requires two good wingers. By your standards, we don't have one. And, by the way, Milner is not a wing player. Neither is Dyer. But playing up top in the 4-3-3 would bring out the best in Dyer. He is better suited to that role than he is the right wing in a classic 4-4-2. This role is probably best for Milner as well. (He started his career as a striker)

Also, you're right. Without any new signings Souness would be mad to play 4-3-3. Without any new strikers he'd be mad period. End of last year we didn't have the players to play much of anyting really. Nothing up top. No creativity in the midfield. Just booted the ball up field and hope Shearer could score, or pray that Robert could hit the target on a deadball. It wasn't inspiring. (Basically, our midfield sucked. It has sucked since Solano left, and Bowyer showed up.)

But luckily, this is the transfer and bollox thread, and we are discussing who Souness is attempting to buy.

Don't shoot the messenger. This what is happening. The club is going to play 4-3-3 and they are buying players who will make it work.

* Souness has stated that the club will be playing 4-3-3 next season.
* Milner mentioned in the press that the club is running drills in 4-3-3.
* The club has made bids for Boa Morte and Anelka, both are well suited to playing roles in a 4-3-3, 4-2-1-2-1, or whatever.

---------------------Given------------------------
Carr--------Boumsong--------Bramble---------Babayaro
--------------------Faye/Parker------------------------
---------Parker/Jenas---------Emre/Viana---------------
------------Dyer---------------Boa Morte----
-----------------Anelka---------------
----