New York Times: The Bush Democrats

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Nutmeg, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Aug 24, 1999
    David Brooks Column has a lot of interesting information regarding the split in the Democratic Party vs. the current unity in the Republican Party.

    The Bush Democrats

    Some interesting pieces:
    45.5% of US leans Republican
    45.2% of US leans Democrat

    If Dean gets nomination:
    20% of Democrats say they will vote for Bush
    3% of Republicans say they will vote for Dean

    "In other words, at least at the moment, Bush has crashed through the 45/45 partisan divide. He is a polarizing figure, but there are many more people who support him than oppose him. And this support is not merely personal; it is built into the issue landscape. According to an ABC/Washington Post poll, 57 percent of Americans say they are more likely to support a candidate who supported going to war in Iraq, while only 35 percent say they would be less likely. According to Pew, 59 percent believe that the war in Iraq has helped in the broader war on terror."

    Like it or not, this is what America is currently thinking.
     
  2. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    So i would appreciate it if Brennan would stop pretending that what he speaks is the widespread belief in this country.

    The facts show clearly that the left wing fringe movement has succeded in alienating middle of the road Americans. Why are some canidates even playing to this crowd? It's not like they need any convincing.

    If they were smart, they would tone down the rhetoric and try to convince moderate liberals that they are viable canidates.
     
  3. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    No need to get all technical, as if polls are scientific, here, but the Dem party is allowed to find itself.

    The thing is, the Dems seem (to me, sort of a human nature scientist) to be having a fight for the "heart" of the party.

    Going the middle-of-the-road seems to be the GOP's game. Conservative mixed with compassion? Dean, even as he sends mixed messages, is calling Bush a moderate one day and a radical the other. In the very event that he himself can define his positions, we are left with, well, the left.

    The left has seen midterm results and they don't and shouldn't like them. The thing is, as they struggle to redefine the party, to set it back to the roots, their strongest, traditionally early primary roots, they are using their moderate face in Dean.


    He sounds radical (Dean never defined this therm, so I won't) to bring the base voters to make some noise. This has worked...for Dean. Will this work for the party? Before we saw all these Dems falling all over themselves to endorse Dean, we heard stories from the left that they really didn't want Dean to get the nomination. Not from the people who knew him, of of him, but let's be fair and say that they really didn't want him.

    Now, the real division between the left and right is not the center. The center is not easy to define as we see candidates and parties try to define the center. It seems easy to define the extemes, ok, the radical sides of the spectrum, but what is the heart of the parties in question?

    This is where the GOP has taken a play from the Ross Perot playbook. Don't talk about it that crazy uncle that lives in your basement.

    Both sides have "crazy uncles" but the GOP can take money and give face time to these carzies while not really doing their time and money justice. The extreme right is given a voice but doesn't really define Bush or the party. We are talking the "face" here.

    In public, the GOP allows the extreme to voice their views and only in one case, the stem-cell resaerch deal, did I see it very visible. But, hey, Bush is allowed to take a stand or two, even if it may not be his decision.

    In reality, the GOP allows these people to talk, but they never really change policy.

    This is where the Dems have a problem. They were forced or by now, are willing to back Dean. I personally don't think Dean is as extreme as he wants us to believe judging by his state record (even though Vermont is a "radical" state in such a region) and his personal style. He looks uncomfortable in this role of extreme left candidate. He thinks, Hey, I'm a moderate who is looking to bring back the forgotten folk to our party. This is why, even as more highly regarded Dems come to back him, he seems to be taking attacks from the other candidates so to heart.

    It seems to me that his early message has worked to bring those radicals to support him, thus has made tons of noise, but was found it hard to deal with "regular" Dems when they feel left out. In fact, what hurts Dean most (hurt as in his personal feelings) is that the party has seen a horse to ride and the regulars have yet to take to him. Again, he is a moderate with strong convictions, convictions not only "not that extreme" but strongly against extreme sides.

    In the end, we have a candidate who plans to run two distinct campaigns. One, to win the heart of the party. Two, to win the nation. This is why we see attacks from both parties. Other Dems attack to win the nomination and the GOP attacks because they know Dean can beat Bush in the regular guy talk and in the general election.

    I don't see Bush Democrats, but a Democrat that fails to see their general message address to date. I think Dean is doing the best effort. He is working the strong base and in time will win the party regulars and over time, with some help fro Bush and Bush's record, could win some split voters and even some Republicans.
     

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