NEW RULE IDEA: Minimum Minutes Threshold - Free Agency Alternative

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by adam tash, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 adam tash, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    One of the biggest negatives I see to the current version of MLS re: lack of free agency....is that there are a bunch of players on teams that are bad fits for the player and get no or not enough playing time and miss crucial windows for possible development or wash out of the league despite showing promise...it seems this is the case now more than ever i.e. young players making breakthroughs in MLS.

    I understand MLS cannot let young players just pick which team they want to be on...b/c of how they have set up all the rules of the league.

    Nevertheless, this situation is very ironic to me considering how much MLS seems to be investing in youth academies/developing their own stars etc....while at the same time, MLS is wasting more youth than ever before and making it harder and harder for young players to see the field than ever before....it is truly odd to me that bigger leagues like the Bundesliga seem more willing to play young american talents than MLS....considering the German league has so much more prestige than MLS.

    I realize MLS will not just all of a sudden allow players to become Free Agents...and will only do so if forced....so accepting that reality....i thought of an alternative rule that would prevent players from rotting on benches and perhaps having worse careers than necessary as a result.

    So my solution is simple: What if there was a minimum minutes played threshold whereby any MLS team could freely and without any return compensation acquire the rights of any player on any MLS roster if that player had not played a certain number of minutes the previous season?

    So, for example, let's say the minutes threshold was 500...every (healthy) player who had played less than 500 minutes the previous season would be eligible to switch teams...(hopefully to a team that is more willing to play that player)....the threshold could go up based on number of years the player has been in the league, for example.....and it could be similar to the exapnsion draft where teams cant lose a bunch of players the same year.....maybe a max of 2 per season from the same team.....furthermore, you make a rule that to pick up a player from another team using this mechanism, you'd have to guarantee to play that player a certain number of kinutes the next season or lose their rights the subsequent year...so, you'd have to play a player say 1000 minutes of you picked them up through mechanism or lose their rights...and they would just become a regular free agent.

    Obviously the rule wold have to be fine-tuned and tweaked....but that basic idea would do a lot for the players at the end of rosters or the players who are good enough for MLS but for whatever reason not playing. I think it would force MLS teams to play their most talented players more and not just let young talents rot away on their benches like they seem increasingly wont to.

    It's not about player x or player y...but im thinking of a player like keegan rosenberry who was rookie of the year and on the fastrack to the umsnt and now is not playing basically in MLS....or saad abdul salaam or EPB...both stuck behind us national team players but clearly good enough to play in MLS...just unlucky situations that they have NO CONTROL OVER......it's not about these specific players i've named here either....there are players in similar situations on EVERY MLS ROSTER....this way, if you show well and any mls team wants you...then you can go. I dont think it is fair that MLS teams get compensation for players they dont want...so i would eliminate that....and let it be a free-for-all for these end of the roster and underappreciated players.....

    i think what you would see is that players who got a fresh start with a team that suits them better...would all of a sudden be "a lot better" than they were for the team that didnt want to play them a lot of the time...and MLS would maximize the talent that they do have a lot better than they currently are......

    and overall, i think it would a quick and easy way to increase quality of play.....it would mean that the acutal best players in the league are on the field more. as it is, a lot of good players are stashed on teams benches not playing.....this rule would address that, as well.

    If a team doesnt want to give a player minutes...why should they be allowed to hold onto that player's MLS rights??
     
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  2. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, KCbus covered it.
     
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  4. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so...both of you have nothing of substance to add?....<business as usual>
     
  5. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You want substance? Fine. Here it is:

    Your idea sucks.

    Every MLS complainer has some brilliant idea to fix the league, and it always falls into one of two categories: MLS should take off the training wheels and go money-crazy and try to compete with Manchester United and Real Madrid, or MLS should run itself like a charity league where the priority is making things better for the national team and for young players.

    MLS is a competitive league. Its clubs should have no obligation to play ANYONE except the players that they believe will help them sell tickets, win games and contend for championships. Period. Not everyone on a roster can play regular minutes. Some are there to be depth players and role guys.

    Why should a team get to keep a player's rights if he's not playing? I dunno, contracts? Real life?

    And even your number of 500 minutes -- a guy could be his team's super sub and come off the bench for the last 15 minutes in 32 of the 34 minutes and not meet that threshold.
     
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  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't need to waste my time pointing out how stupid this idea is. Anyone with half a brain who actually cares to apply it to how a pro sports league should be run can see the numerous flaws in it.

    (And I see KCbus has more patience than I do)
     
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  7. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Adam Tash ...... let's hope u are 16 or younger.

    Really your only defense.
     
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  8. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I will add something of substance.

    You, sir, have no idea how the world works.
    Your idea is idiotic and merits no further discussion.
     
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  9. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If your "solution" is simple, why did it take you 11 paragraphs to explain it?
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if by competitive league you mean single entity corporation that sells franchisees teams for 150-200 million than yeah...we are in total agreement. MLS is a single entity corporation when it is convenient and a "competitive league" of individual teams when it is convenient ...unfortunately it cannot be both...even though thats how it presents itself to fans as part of its marketing strategy because MLS thinks fan passion and rivalries is the best way to drum up interest in its offerings...so it exaggerates the competitive aspects of its business....when owners only care about competition as it relates to their COLLECTIVE bottom line.

    but regardless of that reality....i take issue with your characterization that somehow if MLS operated with the best interests of the national team/young players in MLS...that that would somehow be a charity league....or even detrimental to its profitability. The better the USMNT does the more profitable MLS will be. without world cup 94 there would be no MLS. if the USMNT could win the world cup....MLS value would skyrocket. you act like USMNT and MLS interests are not aligned and potentially mutually beneficial...a ridiculous viewpoint, imo.

    to the specifics of my idea....it wouldnt require ANY CHARITY at all for MLS to implement it. We are dealing with players who are not thriving in MLS ONLY....so....it would be a solution for the players WHO ARENT PLAYING or BARELY PLAYING....whatever happens to these players has minimal impact on MLS' business interests...their success (or lack therefor) is not really having any effect on MLS revenue/profitability.

    In fact, i think my proposal would actually be beneficial to MLS revenue as it would mean more players in MLS would potentially meet their won potential...and theoretically be able to be sold or at the very least be more valuable....the better MLS players do...the more valuable MLS is.


    I find it odd that in a league with more idiosyncratic mechanisms and unique designations that a proposal for a new one would be met with such distain....i mean there a laundry list of other wierd tags, designations, mechanisms etc....but you all draw the line at my proposal??
     
  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #11 adam tash, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    i'm guessing you are unfamiliar with how MLS has had expansion drafts throughout its history??

    There is significant precedent in MLS history for teams taking players from other teams' rosters in case you were unaware.....

    my proposal would only apply to players who are essentially NOT PLAYING or BARELY PLAYING.

    alternatively, the rule could be applied to only non-playoff teams...if you dont make the plyoffs...you can take a player who isnt playing from a playoff team, for example....


    Also, i am not proposing that MLS give up its rights to these players just that the team who doesnt play a player forfeits their rights to a player they arent using....and thaat the player is still owned by MLS.

    the re-entry draft pretty much already is very similar to my proposal as it is...this is essentially just a modification of that......

    what is so idiotic about that??

    do you really think teams will suffer for losing players who arent making the 18 on gamedays????????????????????
     
  12. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    my age is irrelevant.

    this is an IDEA...nothing more.

    my hope was that people could suggest ways to improve my idea instead of only attacking it.

    collaboration instead of criticism...but this is the internet...so.....what was i thinking....

    i see a problem....(that players in MLS fates are subject to luck more than necessary and dont ha ve many options when they are in a bad situation)...and tried to offer a potential solution in a forum that has the purpose of looking at how MLS is run.

    is this not a forum to throw out ideas???
     
  13. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if MLS teams truly operated independently of each other financially, i could be more on board with your take...but considering that MLS owns all of its players and the teams dont...then your perspective doesnt really make sense to me.

    im not saying that a player who isnt playing should just be free to do whatever they want....but im saying if a player isnt playing in MLS...that the league should make it easier for that player to get onto a team that might actually play them....instead of draconian THIS IS LIFE...suffer for the law .....ancient roman bs.....

    when it is convenient for MLS...it is a single entity...but then when it is better for MLS....every team is autonmous....in many ways MLS is single entity but then when player freedom of movement is involved...THEN the autonomy of teams must be protected...its hypocritical.
     
  14. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are there any players like this in MLS?

    32 sub appearance but under 500 minutes played??

    give me a list of players that this describes...i'll wait.

    you might MAAYBE come up with 1 or 2...but even then ....if a player is good enough for 32 sub appearances but their team wont start them....maybe another team willl.....

    it happens in leagues all over the world.....

    when a julian green cant start for BAYERN...he goes to stuttgart and get PLAYING TIME...or mckinzie gaines at wolfsburg...he goes to darmstadt.....

    when EPB cant get playing time for skc....he goes to the BENCH....and thats why MLS doesnt develop players who are great...they put team rights and league rights above player development.....and whats actually in the best interests of their most valuable resource: their own players.
     
  15. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    i have a great NEW IDEA and one that no one has ever, ever, ever thought of before; it will be the greatestest idea in the history of ideas and will just blow away every other idea ever. oh, and i will not use capital letters (except to EMPHASIZE my idiocy) or proper punctuation...

    why doesnt (sic) MLS abolish the draft?!?!

    that would solve everything, create a new, beautiful, prosperous MLS future, promote fairness and equality (not just in MLS but worldwide), bring peace to the middle east (with thanks to jared kushner) and ease tensions with north korea.

    --adam tash
     
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  16. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn right they do. Why should a team -- ANY team -- prioritize giving minutes to developing players who may or may not be what they need instead of giving minutes to the players that can help them win?
     
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  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the mvp of the u20 concacaf tournament cant help an MLS team win games? okay.

    besides, whether a player can "help their teams win games" is SUBJECTIVE and far from absolute...it certainly isnt ascertainable by checking the playing time of a player.

    my point is that playing time often does not correspond to ability....so lets give the players who might be able to help a team - maybe not the team they are on - win games - that chance with another team.

    beyond that, since mls is single-entity...and forces players to sign with the league.....not teams.....why should the interests of "teams" matter to players - or anyone for that matter?
     
  18. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Um, Isn't that the purpose of the MLSII clubs in USL? I know my TFC has sent several players up and down over the course of this season to give them minutes to develop and keep them hungry.
     
  19. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a difference between giving players playing time because you think you'll see a long term benefit from it, and doing it because a rule mandates it. Obviously, if a club believes one of these kids has a serious future, they'll play him, and take a few lumps because it'll pay off later.
     
  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...but the rule wouldnt be mandating anything.....a team wouldnt have to play a player if they dont want to....

    if a club is not giving a player minutes...what is there to lose for player or club by having that player go to another team (that wants that player more!)???

    it could be a gradual thing where maybe the first year there would be no minumum minutes....( i mean, i really think there should be...b/c why are they on a team at all if they arent playing at all??)...but you could say first year the minutes minmum is zero....but then SECOND year it jumps up to 500 or whatever the # is...... and it could be a thing where youth players need to reach a certain age (but then again...if a team thinks a 16 year old can help them and is willing to play them a la carelton for instance.....well then i dont really see the bad in that)

    if a player hasnt played in 2 years for a club...then they are most likely gonna end up cut anyway.....

    to me this rule only applies to a small slice of MLS anyway...which i think most posters in this thread are missing....

    for those players who are looking likely not to stick in MLS ...this gives them an out.....an alternative.....to actually join a team that wants them and will play them!!

    maybe a team really rates another player on another mls roster and would play them...but the current team that player is on has no use aor space on the field.....so why not give that benched player a chance to become something???

    i dont have any loyalty to spacifc mls team so maybe thats why this rule seems weird to all of you that do......idk
     
  21. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Hi, MLS cast-off? This is the Canadian Premier League calling. Wanna chat?
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They do.
     
  23. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Have you done any research to find young players who have played less than 1000 minutes one year and gone on to be starters? Like for example on the league's best clubs?
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The are dozens of talented young Americans playing regularly in MLS. How many young American players are playing regularly in the BL, is it 2 or 3?

    What's wrong with players like Rosenberry playing in USL while they regain form or fitness?
     
  25. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i would say its more of a historical shift. it used to be that promising young players in MLS didnt have to worry about playing time...and now they are lucky if they ever get it. I dont really get what your question is aiming at though....are you implying that if a player isnt getting playing time then they probably never should? to me what's more telling is to find the players who showed well in limited or major minutes and whose playing time has dried up or never came.

    players like: luis gil - a us youth standout - has played 7 seasons in mls and only started 20 games once. in MLS 1.0 or 2.0 he would've been an every game player. christian roldan is success story - but a rare case - he had a little more than 1000 minutes his first season and is now a starter - but his trajectory isn't that commonplace. saad abdul-salaam fits pretty well with what i'm talking about- played ~1000 minutes his first season - was the starter his second (with 6 assists as an outside back!) - and now will be lucky if he makes 1000 minutes this year. Erik Palmer-Brown has 800 minutes in 4 MLS seasons...despite being concacaf u-20 MVP...and some posters on this site advocating he be called up to full usmnt. Cubo Torres scored 15 goals in 2014....then played 339 and 401 minutes the next 2 years....now, he's tied for 5th in the league in scoring and has more goals in 2017 than giovinco. even somone like Anatole Abang - he scored 4 goals in 392 minutes in 2015 -he has 4 goals in 5 MLS starts! but he's only played a total of 600 minutes in MLS career - and he's not even on his MLS team for 2017. what more could he do???? Eric Ayuk impressed me in 2015. he had 2 goals and 2 assists in 14 starts in 2015 and hasnt been seen since in MLS. Micheal salazar has 5 goals in 12 MLS starts - (3 goals in 4 starts in 2017) - but will be lucky to make 1000 minutes this year. patrick mullins is an intersting case...always hovered around 1000 minutes for his first few years, despite scoring a lot goals/game.....was primed to be a starter this season but has been injured. still, might hve never been primed to start if he wasnt lucky enough to leave villa's shadow in 2016....despite putting up 6 goals in 11 starts in 2015. even a player like dillon powers who had 5 goals and 9 assists as a CM in 2014...and wouldve been the type to move to europe if he had come through MLS 10 years prior - had the misfortune to be stuck with pablo mastroeni as a coach and flatlined in terms of development - is a an example of wasted talent with limited options to change his situation who - as a usmnt fan - i wish couldve had a better chance to have a better career path.

    i could go on and on and on with more examples....there are players like the ones listed above on every MLS roster......my point is that there are so many players who are "MLS-Level" but not getting chances to be starters or truly prove themselves....or are stuck in bad situations with bad coaches etc.....and i would prefer if MLS found a way not to be so wasteful with its unproven players. i realize that depth on a team is good and when you have a starter caliber player as a backup...it is a sign of overall improvement in terms of quality of play....and that the deeper teams become....the more that there will be players who are "good enough" but dont play...but what i'm saying is is that the current situation is less than ideal and could be better.

    furthermore, from a usmnt perspective, the 2002 world cup is still the high-point for USMNT...in part because of what im talking about here....back then....every player who might have been a usmnt player was on the field playing....that was a sweet spot in terms of enough room on rosters and lineups for promising players in MLS.....now, those opportunities are few and far between and the potential breakthrough usmnt players are on MLS benches for the most part.
     

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