New Politics Thread

Discussion in 'AC Milan' started by Falc, May 18, 2016.

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  1. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Jan 23, 2020
    Now you witness how I take control of chronology, your newest make believe argument. You laid claim that I ignore everything before 1919? Let's go right back to the beginning when all Croatian jealousy started shall we? In the Austrian empire where superior Serbian military forces were given amnesty to many obligatory customs that their lazier Croatian contemporaries were not granted, spawning into a millenia of wars and genocide by both sides. When you ask who started it, history clearly points to the Croatian. https://bit.ly/2u2a44L

    Ethnic tensions between Croats and Serbs can be traced back to the Great Schism of 1054. During the time of the Austrian Empire, land privileges were granted to Serbs living in the Military Frontier of the Habsburg Monarchy.[11] As Habsburg frontier militiamen, they were exempt from communal and church autonomy as well as feudal obligations while Croats were not. This became a source of Croat resentment and Serb determination to defend their status which became articulated in nationalist sentiments and ideologies in later history.

    [​IMG]

    Keep Dancing Gilbertsson.
     
  2. totti fan

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    King @Leonardo Musupic is totally destroying hapless @Gilbertsson by exposing the sordid history of the disgusting, murderous hyper nationalist Croat Ustase.

    The Big Soccer chapter of the KKK can do nothing but look on stupefied as one of their own is dismantled and the horror of the inevitable consequences of their fascistic belief system is laid bare.

    What a quandary they find themselves in. Do they condemn the Ustase for crimes of ethnic cleansing committed against "Italian" citizens in Northern Italy during and after WWII or do they cling to the sinking ship that is the inept Gilbertsson while he flails around for excuses like "But I wasn't born yet" or "they weren't Croats"? What a mess.
     
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  3. Leonardo Musupic

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    Same stupid argument can be made of Croats. You're just too blinded to it because of your culturally induced deep sense of hatred for other slavic tribes, spawning all the way back to the schism of 1054 when both Serb and Croat tribes were owned by the Austrians.

    I'll show you how easily your stupid argument can be equally accurate and turned back on you.

    Croats can be Ustase (right wingnut retards, under the blessing of the Catholic Church, protectors of the Kingdom of Croatia) and they can also be Yugoslav Communists, Tito being the best example along with the Ustase who weren't killed at the end of WWII joining Tito in the Yugoslavian Army and were mostly responsible for the Foibe massacres. At the end, there are no differences.

    Just like there are no real big differences between Serbs and Croatians. You're all the same. There is a high level of stupidity within the slavic genome because you guys keep finding imagined reasons to kill each other over and over and over. "But they started it!" Yeah, the Croats started it at the beginning of the 1st millenium.

    One day you'll wake up to this reality and realize all your hatred for your own people was wasted. It's never too late to wake up Gilbertsson. Imagine all the time you'll save scouring wikipedia for purely imagined differences of the many tribes of the slavic race.
     
  4. totti fan

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    You'll be wishing he was a communist if they keep raising your rents the way they have been. I feel sorry for you bud. It looks like Bloomberg might run against Trump. With those two parasites setting the agenda it's only a matter of time b4 they come for your livelihood. But you keep voting for a landlord that'll show em.
     
  5. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Chetniks basically allowed communism to form a party in 1919. This was the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. You both share the identical dream.

    For all non-communists, Yugoslav Partisans are the savages, anti-democrats, anti-LGBT community, anti-liberals, something that we all regret. They never controlled anything before WWII. They occupied the territories in South-East Yugoslavia: Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia. The easiest route for communist state. That's why you never attack them.

    I don't support Chetniks, their flag is a skull with two bones, black background. They are also anti-democratic, just like Yugoslav Partisans, plus they are obsessed with Serbian Orthodox Church, something that doesn't grant the religious freedoms, just like Yugoslav Partisans who adored atheism.

    See? No difference between Chetniks and Yugoslav Partisans. Different ways for the same goal: destruction of democracy and freedom.

    Ustase were Croatian movement, but many members didn't had Croatian heritage. Movement that was pluralist, they had four different religions among members: Roman Catholics, Muslims, Serbian Orthodox, Judaism, maybe some of them were from Protestant denominations. And Croats are only Roman Catholics. So, why do we see other religious groups in Ustase? I don't mean here on army, I mean on high officials. Orthodox Christian priest Germogen supported Ustase:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germogen_(Maximov)

    He established Croatian Orthodox Church for all Orthodox Christians in Croatia. I doubt that there are Croats of Orthodox faith.

    Wrong! You can't read.

    I said specifically clear that Croatia has three main branches of origins: Latin, Slavic and Germanic (Austrian, German), plus smaller percents of Hungarians.

    Slavic can be Croats, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes. That's why there is a Slavic name for Croatia: Hrvatska and Croatia in Latin language. Not so similar words. Others countries usually have the similar sound in all main languages.

    Serbs have different influences: Hungarian, German, Croatian in north, Albanian in South, with Vlach Latin and Slavic community.

    You want to decline everyone and place everyone in one closet, or forced labour camp.

    What could be Ustase representative Navratil? Not Croat for sure, obvious Czech surname: Navratilova.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ustaše

    Surnames like Asner (Aschner), Alajbegovic, Altgayer, Benzon, Betlehem, Mortigjija, Metzger, Mesic, Pospisil, Servatzy, Singer, Werner?

    Metzger means Butcher in German language. In Croatian Slavic, it's Mesar.

    They are all non - Croatian surnames. I see German, Bosnian Muslim, Italian, Albanian, Jewish, Czech surnames. You?

    Main Headquarters:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Ustaša_Headquarters

    Again Betlehem, Mesic, Bzik, Hadzic, Singer, Laslo, Seitz...not Croats, even though this breaks your theory that only Croats and Roman Catholics adored Ustase. Read closely the surnames. And respect their origins, background, traditions and languages. Which Croat could understand their house languages, their parents?

    But if you want to roll than keep going. They are not random names, they are taken as members of the Main Headquarters. Imagine what was in the army, among ordinary people who accepted Ustase. Croatia was consisted with many ethnic groups, when they saved Orthodox Christians from Ottoman Empire, during Austro - Hungarian Monarchy many people came from other parts of Monarchy.

    Josip Broz Tito was a Communist, they hate Croatia, observe you. All Croatian Communists, Partisans fought only for Yugoslavia. Not for independent Croatia, otherwise Zagreb would be the capital of Croatia, not Belgrade since 1918 until 1990. And Tito was buried at home, where he belongs, in his capital city called Belgrade.

    There are people who are against unification. Democratic choice. If they are all savage morons, why clever and nice Tito wanted to gather them?

    You use typical Serbian style of communication:
    1. Croats are not Croats, they are Serbian Roman Catholics.
    2. Croats are evil, they killed Serbs.
    3. Croatia is evil, but we will organize battles and make the war start, so that we conquer evil Croatia and enjoy in their geographical territory.

    See how those 1,2,3 look stupid in the eyes of independent reader.

    For stupid Communists, it's the same:
    1. Croats are only Slavic, they must participate in Pan-Slavic, Yugoslav idea.
    2. Croats are evil, because they don't want to be Communists.
    3. Croatia is evil, but we will organize wars and conquer them.

    For both of you, Croatia is an object of hatred and desire. Without Croatia, you only have bushes, grass and few rivers, no actual resources.

    You are a dictator, that goes against my democratic beliefs and my desire for freedom. Check the list of your Communists in Haag prison.
     
  6. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Find in any source where Croats attacked Serbs before WWI, WWII? Just try to find that. Serbian Chetniks exist since middle 19th century, Communist Party since 1919. Someone had to do something against these psychos: Chetniks, Communists. CC Duo. If there are people who are against these two, than their wish should be respected. As you can see, there were a lot of opponents.

    Bulgarians attacked Croatia in 9th and 10th century.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Croatia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian–Bulgarian_wars

    Back than Croatia saved Serbs from Bulgarians. That's why Yugoslav king has never removed the monument of king Tomislav in Zagreb. Even one of his relatives gained the name Tomislav to calm Croatia because they were not happy in Yugoslav Kingdom.

    "Simeon overran Serbia in 924, destroyed it by tricking its nobility, and made it directly part of the Bulgarian Empire. Serbia's ruler Zaharija Pribislavljević fled and found exile at the Croatian court, while after the realm's destruction massive waves of Serb refugees fled and found refuge in Tomislav's Croatia. Trying to gain Croatian entry into this coalition, Romanos I ordered the province of Dalmatia in ca. 925 to pay taxes not to Byzantium but rather to the Croatian state;[3] the Dalmatian territories, including most cities and the northern islands, were henceforth administered by King Tomislav and were to remain under Croatia. Tsar Simeon sent Duke Alogobotur to drive the Serb refugees further into Croatia, causing outright war in ca. 926."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karađorđević_dynasty

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Tomislav_of_Yugoslavia

    "The Prince was named after Tomislav of Croatia, the King of medieval Croatia."

    Sucking up, obviously so that Croatia remains in borders. That Tomislav was born in 1928.

    In the same year Punisa Racic killed Croatian representatives of Yugoslav Parliament:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puniša_Račić

    1929: The Yugoslav Dictatorship started.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_January_Dictatorship

    We move always in the beginnings.

    Your theories of ethnic attacks of Croatia against other Balkan people is funny, because Croatia is one of the smallest Balkan countries. Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece are bigger.

    Who to attack than?

    You only write about WWII constantly, which is silly. They attacked Croatia in peaceful times, since the 19th century. Serbs noticed that Ottoman Empire became weak, just like Austro - Hungarian Monarchy at the end of 19th century. With the wave of Communism, Yugoslavia was founded in 1918. But Communism also ended as weak and still is. Fierce and passionate Communists mock to their choice before 1990. Weak and on the knees, forgotten and replaced with social - democracy, democracy, liberalism, capitalism, religion. Everything besides communism.

    Which territory is Military Frontier? Find the map clueless? It was divided 9 Military Froentiers. Croatia had 2 Military Froentiers: Croatian and Slavonian. How can Serbs just come and settle in these two regions?
    Legitimate reason to object against that Austrian decision. Just like many countries today refuse to accept migrants from Middle East. Just because 2,3 states say that countries must accept them?

    This Military Frontier was an invented name so that they can all defend against Ottoman Turks. And you mention these 9 Frontier zones as something important.

    You forgot to mention that Austrians signed Statuta Valachorum with Serbs. Or The Vlach Statute.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statuta_Valachorum

    Why this Statute isn't Serbian Statute, why do we see the name Vlach? Latin people? Key proof that Serbs were not the only Orthodox Christians in Military Frontier, but today they are all under Serbian Orthodox Church.

    As you can see, nothing has changed since medieval times. Serbs took over nice number of Latin Orthodox Vlachs.

    Vlachs exist in different European countries:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlach_law

    Wales, Wallonia, Wallachia, Vlachs...similar thing that embraces only Latin speaking communities. Spanish name for Wales is Gales, similar to Gaul, Gallia, Galicia in France, Spain. They are not close to Balkan Peninsula Vlachs.

    But why would Austrian king gave that name for the Statute? If they were all Slavic Serbs?

    I know who am I, but I know that you are not a democrat, liberal, capitalist, you are against religious freedom.:D You are out of normal mainstream.:D Unaccepted in normal academic circles. I am only anti-communist. So, I could pass as part of normal mainstream.:)
     
  7. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Didn't I tell you a few pages back that you would keep dancing on command Gilbert? I win again.
     
  8. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

    Albion Rovers
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    Jan 23, 2020
    What time is it?

    [​IMG]
    Why I do believe it's time for another essay that no one will read from Gilbertsson, the fascist apologist and excuse maker for the Ustase criminals.
     
  9. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Where did I said that Ustase were not Croatian Movement? Only your dreams. I said numerous times, that this movement is Croatian, but it attracted also large number of non-Croats. Even if you see evident German, Serbian, Bosnian Muslim, Jewish, Italian, Czech, Hungarian, Albanian, there were also some Montenegrin, Macedonian Ustase.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlado_Chernozemski
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savić_Marković_Štedimlija

    They were not some marginal Ustase individuals and you know it. Josip Frank was one of the frequent names that promoted Croatian right-wing ideas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Frank

    Ante Starcevic is the father of Croatian nation, but his mother is Serbian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Starčević

    Ustase took their programs as their own ideas. Every movement seeks some older instance to be more older.

    This Serb composed Croatian national anthem, the anthem was in Ustase movement and today.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Runjanin

    Read about Serbs in Ustase Movement. Find it in English language.
    http://nezavisna-drzava-hrvatska.com/html/srbi_u_ustasama.html

    There are 10 influential names. Why would Serbs join in Ustase? Because of this your theory about Ustase who killed millions of Serbs is in problems. The census of 1931 and 1948 reveals that. Why would Serbs in Ustase kill their own people?

    Some of these 10 were born in Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro.

    Emil Uzelac was in Ustase Air Force
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Uzelac

    You constantly try to forge that I placed few random surnames that "sound" as non-Croatian. They don't only sound, they are not Croatian surnames.

    Try to implement this in your modest brain. You would be much more satisfied with theory about Ustase where only Croats joined and killed all others. It sounds nice, I understand you. But you can't erase their ethnic group, religion.
     
  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Thanks to me, you had to open 3 accounts, so that Communism has 3 supporters on American forum. How poor.:D
     
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  11. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Jan 23, 2020
    And he's right on time.

    [​IMG]

    You can't help it Gilbertsson. I say dance and you will dance.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Rather write to your Communists in Haag prison.
    Apologise to Foibe family descendants and to all non-Communist victims.
    You would be thankful that I stop. Reversed psychology.:)
     
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  13. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    I don't understand, care to elaborate? :)
     
  14. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    See, not the brightest human being. Read Haag residents biographies: Yugoslav, Army, Party. Well that party ended. Collective clones, Chetniks and Partisans.
     
  15. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    I'm sure if you put that into another 1000 word essay that no one reads, you'll feel more satisfied.
    Are you ready? I'll be back to provoke you into another useless wall of text shortly. Don't go to far.
     
  16. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

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    Hey Sir Gilberto , dont you find this interesting? Just a coincidence right ? ;)....And " someone's " english just keeps changing doesn't it ( back and forth and back and forth )? .....It's like he HAS to respond to you so impulsively that on these instances he doesn't have time to put the thought into making it look like he doesn't know english well and proper.....:D..... It's like he doesn't have the time to make it look different from someone else's style.....hmmmmm? :ROFLMAO:


    @Tifoso

    I guess commies have a go to meme store for situations like this ?
     
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  17. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    #18717 Gilbertsson, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
    Not sure who is satisfied when I write, but I understand who isn't satisfied.:)
    Your attempts are just like fishing in empty lake, that has no fish.
    When I mention the reasons for all conflicts in Balkan Peninsula: formation of Chetniks in middle 19th century, their activity in Balkan Wars, where Croatia was not active at all, with added Communism as threat in 1919 year, through poliitical party, Punisa Racic killings in 1928, king Alexander Dictatorship, you try to find something in earlier times: "Maybe Croatia made ethnic cleansing before 19th century". Before 19th century, nations didn't had some accented ethnic wars, that's why we call 19th century as Century of Nations. Serbs were in South - East. There was no border with them, they were in Kosovo, that's why they cry about that region. Displaced in 14th century from there.

    Two times Croatia saved Serbs and other Orthodox Christians when they received them in Croatia, 10th century when they were saved from Bulgarians and from 16th century, during Great Serb migrations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

    How can they claim the land where they live since 17th, 18th centuries? Only in your twisted communist head.

    Chetniks were active since 1903. in battles, wars.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Chetnik_Organization

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks

    "Following the end of World War I and the formation of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, pro-Bulgarian sentiment was rife in Macedonia, which was referred to as South Serbia by the Belgrade government. Extensive measures were undertaken to "serbianise" Macedonia, including closing Bulgarian Orthodox Church schools, revising history textbooks, dismissing "unreliable" teachers, banning the use of the Bulgarian language."

    Where was Croatia here? Watching how enemies gather close on Eastern fronts. Always remember Leonardo, the danger and terrible systems arrived always from East: Mongols, Tatars, Communists, Chetniks, Ottoman Empire and it continued until recent years.

    Observe their operations:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Chetnik_Organization

    • Fight on Šuplji Kamen (May 27, 1904)[29]
    • Fight in Slatine (October 5, 1904)[29]
    • Kokošinje massacre (August 6, 1904)
    • Rudar massacre (August 11, 1904)
    • Murder of priest Stavro Krstić (August 14, 1904)
    • Murder of priest Taško (January 15, 1905)[30]
    • Fight in Tabanovce (27 March 1905)[30]
    • Lynching of Chetniks in Kumanovo (March 28, 1905)[30]
    • Fight in Velika Hoča (25 May 1905)
    • Fight on Čelopek (16 April 1905)[31]
    • Fight on Vuksan (30 April 1905)[32]
    • Fight on Kitka (30 April 1905)[33][32]
    • Fight on Orešje/Oreške livade (10 May 1905)[31]
    • Fight in Petraljica (31 May 1905)[33]
    • Fight on Mukos (June 20, 1905)[32]
    • Fight on Movnatac (August 18, 1905)[32]
    • Fight on Paklište (February 1, 1906)
    • Fight on Čelopek (7 February 1906)[34]
    • Fight in Drenovac (March 9, 1906)
    • Fight in Nikodim (April 1906)
    • Fight in Berovo (May 13, 1906)
    • Fight in Štalkovica (May 20, 1906)
    • Fight in Kriva Brda (May 12, 1906)
    • Fight in Bajlovac (July 16, 1906)
    • Fight in Bailovce/Bajlovac (16/23 July 1906)
    • Fight in Vladinovace (July 1906)
    • Fight in Vrbnički Vis (July 29, 1906)
    • Fight on Kurtov Kamen (August 12, 1906)
    • Fights in Maleš (1906)[34]
    • Fight on Kurtov Kamen (1907)
    • Fight in Nebregovo (1907)
    • Fight in Drenovo (1907)
    • Fight on Paklište (1907/8)
    And you write about the WWII? And Croatian involvment? These two psychos: Chetniks and Communists are torturing Balkan Peninsula 30-50 years before the WWII. And you still go with theory that people should remain in peace, so that psychos kill them completely?:D Only in your twisted, deviant, limited, anti-democratic mind. You can only be silent and watch your dumb screensavers with Stalin, Lenin, Tito and your Chetniks who were the protectors of Kingdom Yugoslavia. You can be against Chetniks, but without them there wouldn't be Communist Yugoslavia.:D Communists and Chetniks indirect allies, which both invaded in Croatia and made atrocities against all people who were against them.

    Before 19th, 20th centuries Croatia and Serbia lived in peace. Not much of conflicts, united in battles against Ottoman Turks. But they wanted more and they got what they wanted.:rolleyes:

    No exit for you, you can only start with Maybe, Random...because you don't know anything. Communists walk over Communist ideology, they clean their shoes on Communist memorabilia, not us, the normal people who were outside of that obscure system. And I really trust to Communists, when they say negative about their incubator.:cool: More and more Communist people speak with hatred about their red family. And you are aware of it: forgotten monuments, battles that no one commemorates....:D
     
  18. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

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  19. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Maybe he really won....another communist trickery...:p
    Ignore as you can Totti Fan, Leonardo, or invert for your benefits where you may do something.
    Desire and hatred in communists and chetniks.
    Now they have to find ethnic cleansing of Croatia before WWII against poor and innocent Balkan people. They only wanted unification with weapons, knives....:whistling:
    After they all lose...those who defended end as attackers...typical Balkans.:rolleyes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Serbia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Serbia_in_the_Middle_Ages

    Almost all Serbian wars were in Balkan Peninsula.

    "Serbia conquered Epirus, Macedonia and Albania."
     
  20. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Jan 23, 2020
    Two separate people making a search for "Dancing Stalin" and finding the same gif on the first page of the search must be too hard of a thought for a white supremacist to comprehend? I laugh very much loud on that.
     
  21. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Jan 23, 2020
    I can tell that I am owning you badly because you're getting progressively more angry with your imagined accusations. I told you before that I am in control. I also told you I am not the fan of totti who very muchs owns you too and make me laugh very much loud, nor am I a communist. All of those are imaginary beliefs and stories of yours because you can't find anything factual to comment on so you must create these imagined beliefs in order to make up imaginary arguments to pretend you're relevant at all to this discussion. It's all the same with the imagined differences between Serbians and Croatians. Serbs and Croats are the same damn thing. Each ethnically cleanse the other when the opportunity presents because at the core they just really hate themselves. A few smart ones managed to overcome the inherent savagery and contributed something useful to the world like the Serb Nicola Tesla who you've previously mentioned and Croat Tito. Both saw that unity was better than the cleansing of small insignificant differences. To date all you have done is made excuses for the murderous regime of the Ustasa. You're pathetic.

    "But Serbs did it first" and "I wasn't born then so I can't comment on it!"

    I let you think I was a supporter of Chetniks for long enough simply by not addressing them. That caused your mind to wander and create more imagined associations that did not exist "You never talk about Chetniks and they did it first!". Now that I say they're as retarded as the Ustase you move onto your next imagined argument. You are my puppet on strings. Dance.

    Remember in the beginning when you said that it was not possible for the Ustase to be a Croatian movement, even though they ran the independent state of Croatia during WWII because you could find some surnames that sounded Hungarian, Serbian, Germany and Czech? I destroyed that argument with relative ease, forcing you to move onto your next idiotic argument of not being born in that time period and therefore not able to have an opinion. Pages later we are still reading poorly strung together insignificant historically irrelevant tid bits of who dun it first, only to give pretend amnesty absolving Croatians of all the disgusting murderous practices of the Ustase.

    That is all you are doing, is making excuses for the mutilations and destruction of innocent people by your Croatian Nationalists.

    You're caught in a dichotomy of your own making and I forced you into it with ease.

    When I presented modern day examples of fascist apologists for Ante Pavelic and the Ustase movement, even as far away from Croatia as Australia you went in your ridiculous chronology argument. I show you how negative sentiments actually originated from Croatian tribes at the beginning of the 1st millennium. Now you're lost.

    Your latest argument is that there are no Croatian communists, when Big Bro Tito is an example of one of many. There is a small minority of Croatians, very small, who aren't far right wing nazi ideologues obviously. Tito recognized that the bloodshed of the slavic people for very small differences mostly consisting of cultural constructs is an act of savegry and completely stupid.

    He did a good thing uniting the various tribes and was successful enough to not get into debt to either Russia or the West. His only mistake was to allow factions of the Ustase army who survived WWII to take post within the Yugoslavian army and because of their un-quenched blood thirst they killed over 15,000 Italians, Slovenes and other random Serbs in the Foibe massacres with another 400,000+ who lost land that was within their families for many generations.

    Tito's Yugoslavia had no debt, free of control of any overseeing foreign government but that was not good enough for the Croatian Nationalist. The small perceived differences would be triggered again into a war with ease, a war that tore the country apart and put you back in time again.

    Hang your head in shame for supporting murderous regimes.
     
  22. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

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    Jan 23, 2020
    "Croatian holocaust still stirs controversy". BBC News. 29 November 2001. Retrieved 29 September 2010.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/1673249.stm

    Gilbertsson says "Read the names that sound like Serbs, Hungarians, Czechs and Italians. This was not Croatian!"

    "Balkan 'Auschwitz' haunts Croatia". BBC News. 25 April 2005. Retrieved 29 September 2010. No one really knows how many died here. Serbs talk of 700,000. Most estimates put the figure nearer 100,000."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4479837.stm

    Gilbertsson "But they did it first!"

    "Deciphering the Balkan Enigma: Using History to Inform Policy" (PDF). Retrieved 3 June 2011.
    http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB159.pdf

    "United States Holocaust Memorial Museum about Jasenovac and Independent State of Croatia". Ushmm.org. Archived from the original on 16 September 2009. Retrieved 3 June 2011.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2009091...org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005449

    The Independent State of Croatia (Serbo-Croatian: Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH; German: Unabhängiger Staat Kroatien; Italian: Stato indipendente di Croazia) was a World War II-era puppet state of Nazi Germany[7][8][9]

    The Simon Wiesenthal Center estimates that at least 100,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, anti-fascist Croats, and others were murdered in Jasenovac concentration camp alone

    Gilbertsson "I wasn't born then so I have no comment, but they did it first!"
     
  23. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #18723 Gilbertsson, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
    Who started the first Leonardo Musupic? Who holds the golden medal?

    I say: 1. Chetniks, 2. Communists, 3. Croats

    This is the final ranking of the teams that started first. Why are you so upset when I mention the timeline, time chronology? Can't you read?

    I don't accuse you about anything. You are ranked on the 2nd position of those who started the first. Logically, Croatia as 3rd team had to rise up against these two.

    Maybe you are under control when you go and take your medical treatment. Time chronology. Hello to Loony Bin.

    Your hard disc drives are full of communist images.

    What's to comment besides time chronology? If you are not a Communist, just say it: "Communists wanted to conquer entire Balkan Pensinsula and subordinate all people to the Communist ideas. At the end, exactly that happened.

    Imaginary arguments about psychos Chetniks who wandered around from Bulgaria to Croatia...their priest Momcilo Djujic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momčilo_Đujić

    This is imaginary to you? Or when Communist Party was established in Kingdom of Yugoslavia, 1919? Interesting, Communists don't mind about the Monarchy obstacles.

    How can Serbs and Croats be the same, if they were divided for centuries? In last 2,3 centuries they share the border in East. First Serbs arrived before 300,400 years in Croatia, Military Frontier.

    There are no imaginary arguments. Since the beginnings, I consider Chetniks and Communists as crazy people. And this is the fact, historic and behavioural. I don't care who is better between them, for me the equally brainwashed people, only with slight different brainwashing objects. Chetniks adore their king and Serbian Orthodox Church. Communists adore Soviet leaders, Tito and all other boring characters.

    Chetniks and Communists share a lot together, they both formed Yugoslavia. They are both with crazy Pan - Slavic ideas, both oriented towards Russia.

    It's not: some surnames. Entire Croatia today has a lot of different surnames.

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Zanetti/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Batistuta/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Hassler/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Muller/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Del-Pont/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Laszlo/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Szabo/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Vogt/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Puškaš/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Tepeš/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Depolo/

    https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Novotny/

    If they are all Croats, than why not say: Zanetti, Batistuta, Hassler, Muller, Puskas, Novotny are Croatian footballers? Or why not say: Dracula is a Croat (Tepes).

    So, Nikola Tesla is a Serb. But when Serbs join in Ustase, than they are only Croats. Why Nikola Tesla isn't a Croat also? He was born in Military Frontier, with ancestors who live in Croatia since 17th century.

    How can you destroy the origins of some people? You have different problems with that, because now you see that Germans, Croats, Italians, Serbs, Hungarians, Czechs, Austrians, Hungarians went against Yugoslav Partisans and Yugoslavia. Nobody likes Communists. Only Communists like Tito. And you say that you are not a Communist.

    Communists in Yugoslavia abolished their real ethnic origins and embraced atheism with those Soviet abnormal people as their gods. Why would Croatian Communists kill Croatian non-Communists if they were the same, brothers in ethnic sharing? It was mutual killing basically. And you now try to promote the idea of Yugoslav Partisans as Croats?? Too silly to comment that. They should be in Ustase formation. And also there were Croats, as victims of Ustase, because they were Communists.

    Ustase were formed in 1929. So 50-60 years after Serbian Chetniks and 10 years after the Communist Party of Yugoslavia. You are starting from the end. Someone had to remove Chetniks and Communists from its territory. And you still talk about WWII? :D The WWII is just a consequence. The reasons that led in that conflict occurred in middle 19th century. Unsolved relations after the collapses of Austro - Hungarian Monarchy, Ottoman Empire, Balkan Wars, WWI. Also, after Republic of Venice ended in 1797. new maps were made. WWII in Balkan Peninsula, only a desire for territory, nothing else. Serbs only want the sea and the coast, so that they can finally say that they are of Mediterranean culture, but they are not.

    Chronology isn't funny at all. Relevant historic gap of events. That's why it's called the timeline of events. When you accept the time chronology, after that we can discuss. But like that, when you start from endings, when Croatia finally took control and started to move the enemies: Chetniks and Communists, you start to talk about their atrocities, but you forget the atrocities of Chetniks and Communists.

    Nobody likes Tito, just small group of old nuckleheads. Yugoslavia had 20 million of people and maybe 200 old people come in Kumrovec. Travel agencies are not busy with taking reservations for Belgrade and his resting place called House of Flowers.

    Yugoslavia was a typical Soviet Union product. Tito was in Soviet Union, he ended in their labour camp. The same ideology was in both states. Nothing to do with west in practical sense. Cars were Soviet, Yugoslav. In 1970's people could finally buy abroad normal cars. When people started to leave poor Yugoslavia and started to live in Austria, Germany, so they returned with normal cars during holidays.

    Again with Ustase who survived under Yugoslav banner in Rijeka, Istra, Trieste?:D He killed others, but he will save these ones? Crazy theory. So, right - wing people liberated Rijeka, Istra, Trieste and they killed other right - wing people?
    Very convincing argument.:thumbsup:

    Yugoslavia started to collapse in 80's. Yugoslavia without debts and control. Lovely.

    https://www.serbianmonitor.com/en/serbia-to-continue-paying-titos-debt-for-another-22-years/

    Only in control of Paris Club Creditors.

    "Serbia owes 1.7 billion euro of “old” loans, mostly to the Paris Club creditors, from which Yugoslavia borrowed 4 billion euro four decades ago. Serbia also owes 1.8 billion euro of Yugoslav debt to the World Bank, or rather its IBRD branch, and substantial amounts of money to both China and Kuwait, all dating back to the time of the former Yugoslavia."

    "The Croats settled their debt toward the Paris Club and the London Club ten years ago. Croatia repaid the last installment of 192 million dollars in 2008 to the Paris Club and to 78 million dollars to the London Club, a year later."

    Can't believe that people today must pay what some Communist psychos did.:whistling: One of the reasons of poverty in ex-Yugoslavia. Old debts, someone has to pay everything that was free. Psychos.:D Yugoslav Communists acted as "Drunk Millionaires". Hunting in Uganda, Safari in Zimbambwe, shopping in Switzerland, education in London...

    "Compared to billions of euros of loans taken during the time of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in the 1970s and 1980s."

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/16/business/imf-splits-yugoslav-debts-among-successor-republics.html

    "The International Monetary Fund has declared that five succcessor republics have inherited the debts and assets of the former Yugoslavia, and assigned percentages to each."

    "The finding, reached Monday and announced today, is likely to serve as a guideline for foreign governments and foreign banks in assigning liabilities for the roughly $15 billion owed to overseas creditors, New York banking officials said."

    "There is no prospect of early repayment by any of the republics except possibly Slovenia, which has developed some surpluses in its trade balance since achieving independence 18 months ago. Prelude to Negotiations"

    "But the I.M.F. action will also enable some of the republics to begin negotiating relationships with the fund and with other international lending institutions."

    Tomorrow you will say: Yugoslavia great, no debts, Tito united them. No one asked that silly unification through voting. Whoever saw the fat and low locksmith, anyone educated knew the outcome.

    If people don't want some silly Communist unification why do they need to accept it from eternal leader in office Tito. If he was so convinced that anyone likes him. He could make voting process, so that people pick him.:ROFLMAO:

    And again you are on WWII...the consequence of Chetniks and Communists in Balkan Peninsula.:D

    You don't comment that Serbs estimate 700 000 of their victims, but most estimations are around 100 000. But its OK to miss 600 000.:D

    Yes, and Serbs started first through their Chetnik formations. Communists came second. And there you have the consequences. Only if you two stayed at home, Ustase wouldn't even exist.

    Serbs claimed that they had 1,7 of million victims. Now you missed that and you started to write about normal numbers.

    And how many of non-Communists died in Croatia and I mean on all ethnic groups, with different surnames. How many of people died after WWII as victims of Tito's regime. Several Yugoslav people were sentenced for life in prison in Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stjepan_Đureković

    So, lets conclude: Communists killed people before the WWII, during the WWII and after the WWII.:thumbsup:

    I don't have to be ashamed, I am not a Communist. That's why we have Communists today with rosaries in their hands, who mock on every aspect of Communism. Communists don't like to listen about their crimes. We see a lot of voices against Communist crimes. Groups are louder and louder, from those in 1990's to Salvini before several days. He knows the history well. Not like you with your silly theories about survived Ustase under Yugoslav flag.

    You can write all day about the Ustase and their role in WWII. I don't care. They are on the 3rd place, behind Chetniks and Communists in sense of formation and the chronology of crimes. Start with 1919 and Communist Party formation. You know it's silly brainwashing, capturing, killing, forced labour. Nothing new.

    One of key proofs that Serbian Chetniks and Yugoslav Communists are the same:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Vučić

    "His paternal ancestors came from Čipuljić, near Bugojno, in central Bosnia. They were expelled by the Croatian fascist Ustaše during World War II and settled near Belgrade, where his father was born.[12] According to Vučić, his paternal grandfather Anđelko, and tens of other close relatives were killed by the Ustaše."

    "His father worked as an economist, his mother as a journalist."

    They had to be members of Yugoslav Party, if they worked in these occupations.

    "He learned English in Brighton, England, and worked as a merchant in London for some time. After returning to Yugoslavia, he worked as a journalist in Pale, Bosnia and Herzegovina. There, he interviewed politician Radovan Karadžić and once played chess with general Ratko Mladić.[14] As a youngster, Vučić was a fan of the Red Star football club, often attending Red Star's matches,[14] including the one played between Dinamo Zagreb and Red Star on 13 May 1990, which turned into a huge riot.[15] The homes of his relatives were destroyed in the Bosnian War."

    Typical path of protected Communist members: Brighton, London, Yugoslavia, fan of Red Star club.

    Until 1993. Communist, after 1993. Serbian Chetnik.

    "Vučić joined the Serbian Radical Party (SRS) in 1993, a far right party whose core ideology is based on Serbian nationalism and the goal of creating a Greater Serbia,[16][17] and was elected to the National Assembly following the 1993 parliamentary election. Two years later, Vučić became secretary-general of the SRS. After his party won the local elections in Zemun in 1996, he became the director of Pinki Hall,[1] which was his first employment."

    Now he is Progressive.:rolleyes:
     
  24. Leonardo Musupic

    Leonardo Musupic Red Card

    Albion Rovers
    Australia
    Jan 23, 2020
    #18724 Leonardo Musupic, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
    When I was thinking of the name I would take, Leopold was one of the options but then I decided to go with Leonardo instead. I've always wanted to be a Leonardo.

    I've certainly stirred you up into a frenzy to the point of no return now that you've finally come clean and admitted you support the cleansing of innocent people.

    So essentially this is your final argument.

    "They started it first, so I'm ok with Croatian Nationalists slaughtering defenseless citizens, including many elderly, many women and children? I'm ok with the mutilations so horrific soldiers of Franco and the Nazi's themselves couldn't bare to watch."

    You have issues Gilbertsson. You suffer from a deep rooted hatred of humanity.
     
  25. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Haha ! ..I see we're back to pretending bad English now and grammar....what happened bro !!?? You were just speaking so well with Gilbert up to now ? You really are a sad sad individual tuttufan

    Two separate people ( in your words ) searching for a dancing Stalin GIF ( the same one ) and one year apart.... seems kind of strange doesn't it ? .... I guess all commies search for the same dancing Stalin GIFs
     

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