Note: He's referring to the USA-Mexico rivalry. At any rate, have we progressed from using Mexico as a measuring stick to using Germany as one? All things considered, Germany is a better team than Mexico. I don't think anyone can dispute that. I would rather compare ourselves to Germany than to Mexico. But the USA-Mexico rivalry isn't dead. Not by a long shot. It won't be truly dead until the USA blows the holy hell out of Mexico in Azteca (think the 4-0 demolition job in RFK) or the US National Team program falls apart and we go back to fielding essentially college all-star teams. Sachin
I was not aware that they had changed the metric system......heh.... I dont think the USA-Mexico rivalry will ever be over...it will always be a dirty, hard fought battle til the end, whether one team blows the other one away. I would like to think that we could be rivals with Germany....but I dont think it can happen seeing as they are in Europe, and their rivalry with England is still strong. Rivals should be countries close together with teams about equal in strength...like most rivalries are(i.e. Argentina vs Brazil)....
I agree. I think even if one side or the other starts to really dominate this series again (despite the recent results, I don't think we're dominating until we're beating them in Mexico some of the time) this will be our biggest rivalry for the foreseeable future. The combination of history, national passions, the frequent high quality of the opponent, and the number of Mexican immigrants living in the US - nothing should be able to top this for a long time. We'll never play a European team frequently enough to develop a serious rivalry.
There are few great rivalries today. But Mexico vs USA and Brazil vs Argentina are probably the top 2 going right now. I don't really see there being big European rivals currently. In fact the most bitter pairing including a European team has to be England and Argentina. Not that they play meaningful matches more than once a decade. Even teams in Europe don't play each other that much. I mean take a look at the amount of times Germany has played Italy in the past 20 years. Those are historically the two top European sides.
Mexico vx USA one day, in the future, this rivalry will start a war over here. Then we'll bomb the fvck out of Azteca! oh, and England vs Germany is a big rivalry also, but they've already been at war...
England vs.Germany Holland vs. Germany Holland vs. Belgium England vs. Scotland England vs. France Czech Republic vs. Slovakia. Any game involving two teams from either the former Soveit Union or the the former Yugoslavia. All these games carry intense rivalry, with almost guranteed crowd trouble.
Given the proximity of the two countries, past meetings, the recent WC game and the influence of the two countries on each other, US v. Mexico has everything for a long term rivalry. I wouldn't say we are at the rivalry level of a Euro team (though if we played England some more...), but we are making progress. As mentioned before, until we dominate the Hex, our rivals are right here.
This doesn't really seem right. If you ask someone in England if Scotland is a big rival of theirs they would probably say something stupid like, "Does Scotland have a national side?" And if England is rivals with 3 sides that doesn't really fit the bill. Still, before the World Cup there was an article where English players were saying Argentina is their fiercest rival. Now I might be mistaken, but I think in the last 16 years England has played Germany 4 times and Argentina 3 in official competition. So its not like they are playing other teams more. BTW, I never had even heard of an England France rivalry until this post. Where are you getting that from?
There are som many corrections to be made in this post it seems easy to state that: I'm English, I know which countries the english share a rivalry with. Scotland: closet neighbours, a thousand years of raping and pilaging, Westminsters control over Scotland, the oldest international derby in the world. Germany: two WW wars and won WC, + their uncanny ability to beat us on a regualar basis. France: Birthright of every Englishman. I also forget to add in my original posts, the rivalry envolving England-Eire-Nothern Ireland.
well with the English-Argentina rivalry how about US vs Iraq? That would be definite crowd trouble... ha ha
BocaTuna if England considers Scotland their rival I have pity on them. Scotland has a league that is worse than MLS and a national team that has never advanced in the world cup. That's about like the US saying we have a fierce rivalry with oh hmmm, Canada. Thus Mexico was duly insulted when they were taunted with "Hey you tri-colors, are you really Scotland?" If Scotland was a rival with England that would hardly be an insult. Try "Hey you tri-colors, are you really Germany?" Or "Hey you try-colors, are you really Argentina?" Doesn't really work... But I don't know. England hasn't done any better over the last 3 World Cups than the US so maybe they do look to Scotland as their big rivals...
Re: Re: New Measuring Stick? They may be rivals in a sense, just like The University of Virginia has "rivalries" with UNC, UMD, NC State, Clemson, and Georgia Tech, but we all know that their ONLY TRUE rival is Virginia Tech.
What about Turkey v. Greece. I dont' think they've played in a while, but if they do...and one of the loses...a war will start.
Our true rivalry is with Mexico. Case in point, the way the Mexican players acted after the match. That is what a rivalry is. Pure nasty disgust when another team beats you. Its the way we all feel when we lose to Mexico. Not that has happened very often lately. This usually starts from playing a team a lot in big matches. Like WCQ and at the World Cup and for Gold Cups etc. But it definitely isn't necessary. See the former russian republics mentioned above. It can also stem from political issues like that whole island thing which crafts the England Argentina recent rivalry, or the whole WWII thing which is partly responsible for Germany England. so I would say England and ARgentina are rivals currently. Personally this can change. You can lose a rivalry. Germany, I think is not yet a rival for us. I don't hate the fact that we lost to them. I hate the fact that we could have won that game and been in the semis. That is what I hate.
Our rivalry with scotland, and vice versa has nothing to do with football pur se, it is more to do with a deep rooted rivalry within both societies which occurs when both nations compete against each other at anything, for example rugby, cricket, hockey etc. The only thing that matters is that it's England vs Scotland. The same apllies to England vs the Aussies, a rivalry usally reserved for cricket and Rugby, Though England have played the Aussies only once in football in recent years and that the conutries are not evenly matched, there will still be a rivalry becasue the English always love to beat the aussies at sport and vice-versa. The applies for any sporting event between England and Germany, France , Argentina and the U.S. I am surprised to hear that the U.S doesn't have fierce rivalry with Canada because what I always thought was that both countries always like to put one over each other at any opportunity.
The USA has difficulty having a full blown rivalry with Canada because full-blown hockey internationals with each side bringing their full squad happen about, oh, for two weeks every four years (if you are lucky). Also, for a long time, even in hockey, the USA considered the Soviet Union its main rival. It takes a while to change that. Further, most of the players on hockey teams in America are Canadian, so its difficult for the USA to hate the Canadian team. There was a good rivalry a few years ago in the 400m relay and other sprints, but time has passed that by as well, now that the stars involved have mostly retired. The soccer rivalry was only relevant back when the USA was also small-time. Canada is still mediocre--the USA isn't, and we've found a better rival to our south. And basketball? Canada has a more difficult time getting its stars to play for its teams than even the USA does. So, there seems to be a lull right now in any Canada-USA sporting rivalries. More to the topic of the thread, however, I do not believe that the USA can measure itself against Germany. There ismply aren't enough opportunities for such measuring to take place.
Re: Re: Re: New Measuring Stick? To be honest I no idea what your talking about, but if you are saying that a country can only have one true rivalry and a bunch of minor rivalries, I would disagree. I think the difference is due to the geography of Uefa and Concaf. Conacaf is dominated at every level , political, finacial, historical, and sporting by three countries , Mexico , the Usa and Canada( except for football). It is therefore only natural that the main rivalries will be between these three countries. Uefa is made up of small to medium sized states who have all at one time or another dominated/occupied/invaded each other which always leads to national rivalries. There are also a 6 or 7 of the best football teams in the world based in Europe which further increases the number of rivalries, as well as a long history of football within which rivalries can develop. Europe countries have more opportunity for rivalries because of this. England can share rivalry with Scotland, Germany, France as well as Argentina at the same time. Germany can have a rivalry with England, Holland and Austria at the same time.etc because there are more things to have a rivalry over then in the Conacaf. This doesn't mean that Conacaf rivalries are less intense then Uefa rivalries, it's just that there are less opportunity start a rivalry because three countries dominate the region, where as in Europe it's 6 or 7, plus the break up of Yugo and the S.U. I also forget to add England vs Turkey to the rivalry list for Europe, this rivalry bbased on crowd violence and murders between the two nations at domestic level. P.S It's only human nature to hate the German national team.
Michael Jordan after defeating the Knicks in the playoffs en route to his third NBA championship was asked how it feels beating his rivals. His answer was (paraphrased) "Well, they probably think of us as their rivals, but really we don't consider them rivals." Or in English, they aren't in our league and Jordan was refusing to accept them as peers. When Americans talk about rivals we are talking about the one, ONE, team that both you and your fans most want to beat. The one team where there is no love loss. The team that you bump heads with often and that has frustrated you from time to time. That's why the US has a rivalry with Mexico. It isn't because they are the only quality team around, but because of the heated games, amount of Mexicans living in America, that we even have played them and knocked them out in the World Cup and Copa America (95), that we often knock each other out of the Gold Cup, and that we meet every 4 years in World Cup Qualifying. For an English person to compare their rivalry with France to their rivalry with Germany or Argentina is silly. The US has played Iran and the USSR back when the USSR existed and was considered our "enemy" but that didn't make those rivalries. Maybe I'm just forgetful, but how many times has England played France in the last 20 years in real competitions? How can that compare with Germany who knocked you guys out of World Cup and Euro semifinals or Argentina that knocked you out of two World Cups. What really makes the England vs Argentina rivalry interesting and probably England's true rival (at least before this world cup) was the fact that the English press claimed the English people had never gotten over Maradona's "Hand of God" and then the controversy over Beckham getting sent off from Simeone's dramatization. That has the stuff of a good rivalry. Or you can be rivals of Scotland who are about as good as the Faroe Islands. I guess the US can have a rivalry with uhm...maybe Cuba?
Englands rivalries with Scotland, France, Germany and Argentina go beyond football and international results. Scotland: For almost a thousnad years both countries have been in different levels of conflict with each other. France: For almost a thousand years both countries have been in different levels of conflict with each other. Germany: Spent large chunks of the last century fighting against each other. Argentina: Resentmant of conduct of english nationals living in Argentina, plus the Falkland war. Result: Genral feeling of anoymosity towards each other, which result in rivalries when ever these nations compete in any sporting event. Add to that past football matches, WC 1996, Euro'96, WC 1986, WC 1998, WC 2002, + home championships and Englands failure to qualify for WC 1978, what you get it is a number of equally fierce rivalries. Rivalries are a natural phenomanon which can't chosen or manufactured. They just occur for a number of reasons, at it's only naturally that these rivalries come out when two nations face each other at any sporting event, esp the each countries national game.
I'm just laughing at how many Americans here are wasting away their time with trying to figure out who England's rival is!?!?!?!? I'll put it in terms in which they should understand... New Yorkers hate Bostoners, Bostoners hate New Yorkers...but hey...people from the South hate New Yorkers, and I'm sure California people hate New Yorkers...the list goes on and on.... So yes, England players are up for it when they play Scotland, as well as France, Germany and of course, Argentina...and vice versa. Though the 3 Lions don't play these teams as often as the U.S. plays Mexico, it doesn't mean the intensity in that rivaly is any less. Its just, well, there's a lot of rivaly going on in the region. (It also helps that the U.S. and Mexico are guaranteed to play each other, while in Europe, there's a lot of countries in a lot of qualifying groups). Make sense???
I'm not from Boston... ...but I know some Bostoners hate Californians, Airhead!!! Quit while you're ahead, Deadhead!