Ange is pretty close to being a dead man walking as our form over the last 30 games has been way below expectations. I'm all for backing the manager, but when he has no plan b (and Plan A got found out in November last year), and also apparently refuses to coach set-pieces, how long do you think it'll be before Tuchel gets the call?
This is a test of us, as a fan base and as a club. Do we have the resilience to go through a period of poor form, or do we dump the coach at the first opportunity? How has that worked out for us in the past? I would like him to have the whole season at least. Ideally, he should stay longer until the young players like Gray, Bergvall, Moore and Vuskovic have developed into first teamers. I get how difficult it is to watch right now but I have to believe Ange has some strategies to fix our problems. At Celtic, and apparently other clubs, he had a team that was dominant in their league. He must have faced teams that set up in a low block. He had success in those leagues. The players he had there could not have been of the caliber of ours. I'm saying I still have faith, I guess, but I don't know what the answers are.
The SPL and the other rubbish leagues he coached in do not have the level of competition we see in Europe and the PL. In his 2 years at Celtic, he was shredded in European competion, just 3 wins in 16 and 38 goals conceded. He doesn't adapt. Everyone, including Coventry, has figured out how to play us.
These would be the candidates for me (and whoever comes in, please rubbish Ryan Mason): Eddie Howe is not happy with the Newcastle hierarchy, he is adaptable and could set us up properly. However, if he isn't happy with their hierarchy, how will he get on with Levy? Thomas Frank is another who knows how to set up a team and does a great job of adapting to the opposition. Thomas Tuchel knows what he's doing, but I can't see him working well with Levy and our board. Ruben Anorim was linked to the Liverpool job, but I believe he has a hefty release clause that would be a non-starter with Levy. Graham Potter has been tarnished by his Chelsea debacle and my concern with him is his football is too similar to Ange-ball.
I know there are fans saying 'Give him time', but we've gone backwards. He's super stubborn (insisting on playing the same tactics despite personnel, which means we end up seeing Ben Davies in a high-line defence), refuses to coach set-pieces, meanwhile we regularly get bummed at set-pieces. We may as well accept that Ange isn't going to suddenly change. It's Ossie Ardiles '0-0-10' formation tactics. We won't go anywhere with this bs.
My prediction for this season was an inverse of last season. A poor first half with calls for Ange’s dismissal followed by a strong run, but still finishing 5th. I’d rather stick with Ange at least until the end of the season. Title is out of grasp. Wasn’t expecting Champions’ League. Maybe he can get us a cup final. Goodness knows Spurs and crap performances against lower divisions are duo that goes well beyond Big Ange. Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Kane, Eriksen, Toby, Jan, Moussa, the list of players and managers who underperformed in this Cup is long and storied.
The regime doesn't value the domestic cups because they don't bring in the money of Europe and the PL.
Ange 'I just want to win mate.' Also Ange *plays suicidal tactics with the reserve team in a first team game*
Thing is about the last paragraph, the players in those leagues from the smaller teams that would set-up in a low block wouldn't even get in Championship teams over here. Even Rangers and Celtic can't afford EPL player wages. You can bully teams in other leagues if you're the bigger team with better players, but I don't think Ange has too much experience of setting up against teams with players of the calibre that are in the EPL.
If you are going on about 'winning things', you don't put out the sides he did against Fulham and Coventry.
One day we'll all look back at this thread and laugh, just like the bemused chuckling of Man U fans about Alex Ferguson being one loss away from the sack back in 1990. Glory lies just beyond the horizon. Trust me. Have I ever been wrong before?* *don't answer that.
He might not even get the opportunity if our form continues to nosedive. The reports of player unrest are already circulating.
Still not enough quality players in the squad. Vicario, Romero and Udogie are automatic starters, nobody is pushing to take their place. Udogie especially - coming off a serious injury, not much of a preseason, he's thrown right back in and is among the team leaders in minutes played. Any one else we use at left back is an "emergency" option. We desperately need another left back who can really compete for the starting 11. I've never been totally sold on Romero - certainly don't see him as the best CB in the world. Very frustrating player - can play a nice pass, most goals of any defender in the EPL last year, but so many of the goals we concede come from his area of the pitch, and he doesn't seem to provide much in the leadership department. Again, nobody is pushing for his starting job (no matter what Dragusin's agent says). If Real want him, let them make an offer. I don't have any problem with Vicario, but he sure isn't looking nervously over his shoulder at Forster or anyone else. Bentancur is getting back to his best after the ACL surgery..He's had other injuries, and now his big mouth will be keeping him out. Seems to be getting a reasonable amount of playing time otherwise. I don't see why any of those four should be aggrieved over the manager. I tend to think these rumors are bullshit. While I'm on a rant, Porro has been playing too many minutes as well. See also my comment above about where so many of the conceded goals happen. We need to sign another RB, or let Spence have a chance. We extended his contract and now he's fallen into a black hole. The front line is so ravaged by injuries, there is no real competition there, either. The midfield is the only area where there is real competition for the starting 11, with Kulu being the only automatic starter. Sarr is beating out Maddison atm; if Maddison has a complaint he should look in the mirror, or at game tape. He's slumping. Bentancur v Bissouma - either can be good on their day, both subject to injuries and suspensions. I expect we'll finally see Gray at that position soon. So yeah, we still need more, and better, players. It's a process, and I expect reinforcements in January. If not, look out, it will be a train wreck. But a lot of the problem stems from our lack of homegrown / club trained players, and that is down to mismanagement under previous regimes. That's part of why we are bringing in teenagers who will eventually fill those slots. And that's why we should always be looking to bring in young players, especially homegrowns - don't all the top clubs do this? It won't bear fruit immediately, though.
OK, rant over. This is the new manager thread, so let me ask who wants a new manager. I am not at that point yet. The proven winners, Conte and Mourinho, didn't do jack shit. They were unhappy, the players hated them, the football was pretty dire. Who has the stomach to go through that again? Ange has a system that's been successful elsewhere and you can see what he's trying to do. If you hire a "project" manager, you have to let the project unfold. Unless the bottom completely drops out, I say give him three years. There is still a lot of complacency and rot in the squad. Games like Ipswich happen due to lack of effort by the players. If you fire the manager and keep the players, those performances will continue. That's been the problem in the past.
The sooner he goes, the better. I will address your post in two parts: Part I, 'The Project' Ange is not a project manager, he has never been at any club long enough to be a project manager. Our summer window was Werner, Bergvall, Gray, Odobert, Yang and Solanke. Diabolical. That is not the window of a project, whatever that is. That is the window of a club that has no idea what it's doing. Our young players rarely play. For argument's sake, I am going to define young player as 22 and under. Now let's compare us to a club like Brighton. These are young players who play regularly and effectively in their team: Jake Hinshelwood, 19 Simon Adingra, 22 Evan Ferguson, 20 Georginho Rutter, 22 Carlos Baleba, 20 If you put these 5 in our squad, we would be second in the table. Now look at us: Archie Gray, 18 (hardly plays and when he does it is out of position) Lucas Bergvall, 18 (almost never plays) Destiny Udogie, 21 (poor defensively, contributes little in attack) Pape Sarr, 22 (plays but not a regular starter) Mikey Moore, 17 (by far our best young player, but also rarely plays) Wilson Odobert, 19 (has already undergone surgery, won't see him until late in the season, if at all) Will Lankshear, 19 (rarely plays) This is our 'project'. This is not exactly Manchester United's Class of 92. Our recruitment team, from the chairman on down to the director of football, our scouts and manager, is absolutely dreadful.
Part II, 'That's not who we are, mate!' It's very simple: if you don't value the defensive side of the game, you will sink in the PL. We have only kept 5 clean sheets in the last 39 PL games of which we have lost 17. We have lost 10 of the last 18 PL games. We have lost 8 PL home games in 2024. We have only won 4 of our last 19 away games in the PL. We have dropped 25 points from winning positions in the 49 PL games under Ange. We have only taken 1 point from games against Leicester, Crystal Palace and Ipswich. This is our worst start to a season since 2008-09.
Golara, the two of us don't agree on much, but I bet we can agree on the best starting 11 for Saturday's game. Let's play! Vicario Porro Romero (if available, otherwise Davies) Dragusin Udogie Bissouma Sarr Kulusevski Johnson Solanke Son Would you do anything different? No? Would any other EPL manager pick a team that differed by more than one player? Well, therein lies the problem - we don't have enough good players. Those 11 players don't suck; they are all internationals, and not for lightweights like Azerbaijan or San Marino. But none of them are being pushed, and they are playing way too many minutes. And it doesn't leave the manager with many options. Rather than searching for a new manager and starting over, I would rather keep adding new players - not just warm bodies, though, they have to be good enough to really compete. So my preference is to keep backing the manager by bringing in the players he thinks will be a good fit for his system. Ange does seem to be a pretty good judge of talent - Solanke, Johnson, Gray, VdV, Vicario - so let's keep bringing in better players. Sidenote 1: As evidence of what a shitty situation Ange stepped into, just look at how the club has struggled to get unwanted players out the door. Lo Celso and Gil were disasters (Gil is still on the books), and we finally paid Ndombele to just go away. Dier, Sessegnon, Tanganga. The list goes on and on. This was not like Arne Slot taking over Liverpool. In fact, I would say Ange getting us to 5th place last year was a bigger miracle than Conte getting us to 4th place in his first year. Sidenote 2: Can anyone remember the last time we were arguing over any manager's team selection? Yeah, me neither. We talk about how much rotation there should be for cup matches, but there's little debate about our best 11.
Rather than searching for a new manager and starting over, I would rather keep adding new players - not just warm bodies, though, they have to be good enough to really compete. But we don't do that. Our summer window was shocking. We don't sign quality players. We throw away money on mediocre players like Johnson, Odobert and Richarlison. Levy's main goal is to keep the wage bill low, even though we are the most profitable football club on the planet and have the joint lowest wage-to-turnover ratio in the PL. So my preference is to keep backing the manager by bringing in the players he thinks will be a good fit for his system. Ange does seem to be a pretty good judge of talent - Solanke, Johnson, Gray, VdV, Vicario - so let's keep bringing in better players. I don't think there is any player who fits his system. And we can see the players are starting to revolt against it. If I were a defender, I would absolutely hate playing in this system. He is not a good judge of talent. With the exception of Vdv, the rest of those players are bang average and not exactly striking fear into the hearts of the opposition. Sidenote 1: As evidence of what a shitty situation Ange stepped into, just look at how the club has struggled to get unwanted players out the door. Lo Celso and Gil were disasters (Gil is still on the books), and we finally paid Ndombele to just go away. Dier, Sessegnon, Tanganga. The list goes on and on. That's the fault of Levy for signing and resigning that crap in the first place, instead of bringing in quality. And remember, Ange wanted Werner, TWICE. He wanted Solomon, he wanted Odobert, and he wanted Gray and Bergvall, who he rarely plays. This was not like Arne Slot taking over Liverpool. In fact, I would say Ange getting us to 5th place last year was a bigger miracle than Conte getting us to 4th place in his first year. This has to be the most outrageously nonsensical statement I have seen on this forum, even Chickasaw doesn't come up with this level of claptrap. Conte inherited a team that after 10 games was allowing 1.6 goals, had a minus six goal difference, and that was averaging 1.5 points per game. In 28 games, he accumulated 56 points or 2.00 per game, scored 54 and conceded only 24, for a goal difference of +30, with Eric Dier, Ben Davies and Davinson Sanchez in defense. Ange on the other hand, even with 26 points from the first 10 games, threw away what should have been easy CL qualification with his stupid tactics and team selections. And I am still waiting for Ange-Levy Apologists on this forum to address these shambolic stats: We have only kept 5 clean sheets in the last 39 PL games of which we have lost 17. We have lost 10 of the last 18 PL games. We have lost 8 PL home games in 2024. We have only won 4 of our last 19 away games in the PL. We have dropped 25 points from winning positions in the 49 PL games under Ange. We have only taken 1 point from games against Leicester, Crystal Palace and Ipswich. This is our worst start to a season since 2008-09.