Looks like a minimum of 12, and possibly 14 or even 15 players from the 2002 roster won't be back for Fall 2003. Other than the graduating seniors, and the two (Pause and Stokes) who left a year early for MLS, UNC has "released" Jonathan Davis and Peter Gajdos, and they have "cut" all but one or two of its current freshman class. They also cut two frosh during pre-season last Fall. Now that huge recruiting class makes sense...but with so many youngsters, the Heels will find it rough going in the ACC with the likes of Maryland, Wake and Clemson. Plus, it's very likely that at least two or three of the incoming class won't make it...and they'll get the boot as well. They have three players coming in from the U-17's, but the only returning starters will be Ford Williams, Marcus Storey, Ray Fumo, Tim Merritt, and Grant Porter.
unc i heard jonathan davis is going to UCLA. why? what is going on @ UNC and why UCLA? can he break into the starting line-up? can he help UCLA? can he play? if so, why would UNC release him?
First of all, Davis is from LA, so he's going back home. UNC got rid of him, because Bolowich didn't like him. From what I understand, he had issues with Davis' work ethic, or lack thereof. UNC is going through a mini house cleaning right now. Davis can play, when he puts his mind to it. He's a man-child, great physical specimen, but from what I've seen, he doesn't like to play D, and while he's physically gifted, has mental lapses on the pitch and doesn't always work hard. Maybe another program/approach is what he needs. I know when UNC brought him in, he was their top recruit, and they were expecting All American status from him. Oh well.
Bad times at UNC It looks like the program is headed in the wrong direct. How can a coach bring in players and then cut them? The recruits that can make a difference will figure this out and look elsewhere. Elmar's best times are behind him, the programs major asset now coach's over at Va Tech. It should be a real battle when UNC and NC St hook up this season.
Put me in the camp that has a hard time seeing the positives here. Maybe in 2-3 years this master plan will work out OK and I'll look foolish for thinking this, but to me it just looks like a chaotic and unstable situation and that's not the image you want to project when you are targeting the country's elite players, which is what a program of UNC's stature should be doing. If I'm the returning upperclassmen, I'm pretty pissed off because the dynamic of the team and its chemistry has changed so drastically. The winner in all this may be Big Game George as UNC will be one less veteran and talent-laden ACC team that his youthful Cavs will have to face. Heck, with the Heels and State, UVa may actually win 2 ACC games next year.
what's the difference between being "released" and being "cut"? other observations: --jonathan davis was, indeed, a disaster in terms of expectations for a highly-regarded incoming freshman. in two seasons he scored zero goals against acc competition. and it wasn't because he didn't get playing time. elmar gave him a great deal of opportunity, including several starts, but at that level, he just wasn't able to make it happen. (marcus storey, by the way, has one goal against acc competition in two seasons as a starter. and that one was against nc state) --last year's freshman class, with the exception of ford williams, was an equal disaster. it only makes sense to cut your losses and move ahead. --no question that 2003 will be a year of "rebuilding" and it's difficult to see what kind of overall "master plan" is in place. it does seem somewhat chaotic if not out of control. --that said, i wouldn't be so quick to write the heels off. elmar has shown over the years that he's able to pretty consistently put a respectable team on the field. there's still a pretty solid core of returning players to build on, starting with williams in goal. porter is solid and has both the experience and senior leadership to hold the group together. merritt, fumo and mcginty have shown they're quite capable of playing well against acc competition. although he hasn't seen a lot of playing time, kelly has been solid off the bench the past two years when given the opportunity. he appears capable of stepping up to be a solid acc player. all these players were part of the 2001 championship run and bring with them the not insignificant experience gained from that. soffe looked good off the bench at times last year but was inconsistent. if he's able to step up and probably bulk up a bit, he could be in contention for a starting slot. so not all is lost.... --no matter how you cut it though, it looks like the heels will probably end up starting two or three freshmen. but what better place to start than with those coming from the u-17 mnt! they could form the basis for some pretty exciting soccer and provide some of the offensive punch that was lost. of course, even coming from that background, they'll have a lot of adjusting to do and will definitely have to step up to have an impact. --but it may not be a cause for total crisis. teams lose 4-5-6 players each year all the time. those that are well-coached find a way to blend in new young talent and still keep winning. it'll no doubt be a big test for elmar and staff but there appears to be something there to work with. its a bit too early for wolfpack and cavs fans to be dancin' in the streets...
UNC could have had some real nice in-state players who would have helped last season, and next, but they blew it with recruiting.
He's on the list as a recruit for UNC. UNC has not announced their class yet. If it's like last year don't look for it anytime soon. You can see a list of unofficial recruits at: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/tds/NextStep/recruits1.html
who did they miss? Luv, who did they miss out on besides Gray Griffin? He's the only one I've seen mentioned on these boards that Elmar recruited real hard. The other recruits from NC that went elsewhere and contributed were Ryan Deter (SC), Phil Long (UVa), Justin Moose (Wake Forest), Joe Vide (UVA by way of Germany), and David Sartorio (Davidson). And then there were the three guys from the Charlotte area that went to UNC-W as kind of a package deal (don't remember their names). And I'm sure I probably missed someone. Is your point that he should have gone after these players harder? My guess is that these guys wanted $$$, which he probably didn't have. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.
Wasn't the talk this time last year about the UNC/CASL pipeline? With this big of a washout of the Frosh class was this a failure? If so they're getting ready to do it again, nine commitments from CASL players!
Last year only one CASL Elite player went to UNC. That was U17 and U20 MNT player Ford Williams. The other D1 Elite players went to Davidson, South Carolina, Rutgers, Kentucky, Army, and Georgia Southern. Last year's Elite team was not coached by the former UNC assistant. This year's Elite team was. So, you'll need to save your comments about the "Frosh class failure" until next year...
is anybody out there familiar enough with the casl players to give an objective analysis of their potential at the college level? regardless of how many "committed" to unc, it seems highly unlikely that that many players from the same team stand much of a chance of "making it", much less being impact players. clearly they're not on the same level with the recruits from the u-17 nt, but are any of them likely to be competitive? if not...could be a long season....
I'm not familiar with the team at all, but doing just a little research shows: This team won the State Cup and the Super "Y" League National Championship. Justin Hughes-NCSAA All American, Adidas ESP, Region III ODP, HS All State Casey Shandley- ODP Region III, Had official visits with Princeton,Wake,Davidson,Brown & St John's. David Boole-NCSAA All-South Performer,Adidas ESP, HS State MVP semi-finalist Lee Superville- State ODP, T&T U17 Nat'l pool,NCSAA All-South Performer. '01 HS Region Player of the year Ted Odgers- Adidas ESP, State ODP pool Bryan O'Neal- State ODP pool Brad Darby-NCSAA All-South Performer Michael Fortier-Adidas ESP, State ODP pool
CASL Let it be known that CASL is an excellent club. Also, let it be known that a lot of the kids selected to ESP from CASL was because of a commitment to bring in a lot of NC kids since ESP was held in Wilmington. Don't be fooled that so many ESP players are on the same club team because they are THAT good. But CASL is good and routinely are winning tournaments.
soccerrules is right...politics was KEY in getting so many of these players to ESP. Plus, remember that CASL is the largest Adidas club in the USA. Politics RULES in the world of youth soccer, and anyone who doesn't believe that is truly naive. One or two of those players deserved to go to ESP...but that's it. From what I understand, the U-17 MNT players going to UNC are going to be the impact players...plus a couple from out of state.
Let's get a couple things straight... UNC has had an unbelievable 5 years or so. Elmar has built up a program that is perenially expected to challenge for ACC and national honors. In that time, he's sent Eddie Robinson, Chris Carrieri, Chris Leitch, Danny Jackson, Logan Pause, Matt Crawford, and David Stokes to MLS. They have won an ACC title, the NCAA title, and brought respect and an attitude to the program. This season, despite losing Jackson, Leitch, Ueltschey, Noz...UNC had a good year. Not as good as the NCAA title run. But they played with every opponent...tied Wake, thoroughly beat Clemson at Clemson, and players stepped up. That being said...UNC will not be as good next year. The reasons: the most obvious is that it's impossible to predict that two players will leave early from the same class. The only seniors left who have big experience are McGinty and Porter. Next years' predictions would be a lot rosier with Pause and Stokes still on the team. Last year's recruting didn't turn out well. It was a nightmare in terms of players not meeting expectations. But there are one or two players who will still contribute big time next year. And the problems are not going to be solved by one monster recruiting class this year. I expect UNC to be decent...beating teams they are supposed to beat, and having a tough time in the ACC. Then, in two years or so they will have the experienced players who will be able to run for titles again.
cantona24, excellent assessment. i think that puts things in perspective. and, what makes it all even more exciting, of course, is the possibility of the unexpected. that blend of players you mentioned could fall flat and struggle mightily against virtually all their opponents....or, they COULD meld quickly and be one of the pleasant surprises of the acc. that's where coaching comes in, along with a bit of luck. and of course it'll depend on what kind of impact the incoming freshman can truly make. i, for one, don't think a tour with the u-17 nt automatically translates into impact at the college level. but if even one of them does make that adjustment and even exceed expectations, it could lead to a surprising and exciting season. and i agree with you, there are still a couple players on the roster who could emerge to become major contributors. who doesn't like a cinderella story...
CASL contributors As for realistic expectations for the CASL group going to UNC, figure to see the following in blue and white next fall: Fortier is a very competent central defender who is very underrated amongst the top defenders in the country. He is not a national player, by any means, but with the number of available spots in the back for the Tar Heels this guy has to figure into the mix. Odgers, along with Chase Perfect (who is heading to Duke), were the most sought after members of this CASL team. A strong central midfielder/defender who is a leader on the field, he could potentially develop into a Logan Pause-type player in either a central role in the midfield or in defense. Other than those two, the only one to get much of a sniff in comparison to other players on the recruiting scene was the goalkeeper, Justin Hughes. Going to UNC insures him of getting to warm up Ford Williams for the next three years before they bring someone else in to start over him in his senior year (if he doesn't transfer before then). The other guys from that CASL team are practice players at best. Boole is an overachiever who has gotten by on his grit and determination despite being fairly unathletic, Superville is an underachiever who is less athletic than he looks, Shandley is a complimentary player who is not good enough to be an attacking midfielder at this level, and Darby is a steady club player who will probably be in and out of the lineup over the next four years. Darby has the best chance to play out of this group because of his ability to play in defense. The best CASL player coming to UNC next season is Michael Harrington, who plays for the US U-17s. This kid has excellent athletic ability and can play up front or wide. They are going to need Harrington and US U-17 teammates Corey Ashe and Jamie Watson to contribute right away or else Marcus Storey is going to be out there by himself for most of the year!
Good assessment Southernsoccerscene, but from what I've seen, I think Shandley is better than Odgers...of course that's simply my humble opinion. Odgers has more size, but that's it...of course for many college coaches, that's the number one thing. I think I heard that Elmar is thinking about playing Harrington in the back. Is that true? Also, do you think Ashe will wind up being a left sided player in the mold of Noz? Cantona...Elmar has had some talent, no doubt...but his style and coaching did NOTHING to help those guys make it in the pros, IMO. Logan was the most under utilized central MF in the nation, because UNC plays direct long ball bypassing the midfield most of the time, and let's face it, UNC won it all when Jackson and Leitch played long ball after long ball to Carierri, Kneipper and company up front. That UNC-Virginia game I saw this last Fall was the worst excuse of a game I've seen in a long time. UNC does not play pretty soccer....they've been able to get away with it, but they were exposed last season.
Hmm, I honestly don't understand how people can claim that Bolowich hasn't developed pro talent. To lengthen cantona24's list a little - since Elmar arrived, I believe UNC has sent Pope, Berhalter, Carrieri, Temoc Suarez, Talley, Leitch, Jackson, Robinson, Zavagnin, Berhalter, Stokes, Pause, Sahaydak, Crawford and others to the pros. Offhand, I'd say that compares favorably to most colleges around the country. And just in terms of defensive players, I can't think of an NCAA team that's done better over the last 10 years. By what standard is putting two players on a World Cup quarterfinalist back line considered unimpressive? Maybe UNC just got lucky, but that seems really unlikely. I don't see what the UNC's style of play has to do with their ability to turn out pro talent. If you object to the tactics they use for aesthetic reasons, that's fine, but you can't really argue with the pro record. Carrieri was in MLS when UNC won the national championship. IMHO, Carolina's relatively disappointing results last year didn't have much to do with not playing sufficiently pretty soccer. The main problem was the failure to bring in any defenders that could fill in for Jackson and Leitch. This meant that Bolowich had to send three midfielders to the back line, and while the D came together pretty well eventually, this took talent and (especially) depth from the midfield - which I think had been one of their strengths in their national championship season, despite the use of the long ball. The relative lack of players able to step in and contribute off the bench was definitely an issue; it's hard to keep up with your opponent if you make 3 subs per game and they make 8 or 9. Also, because Fumo was often pretty much alone in the central midfield (since Crawford liked to drift out toward the wing), Testo and Kneipper had drop back and play like midfielders some of the time, which didn't help from an offensive standpoint. Just my personal opinion, like I said. But, based on the games I saw, UNC actually relied on the long ball less last year than they did during their championship year.