Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

Is this what's meant by "taking back control"?

You couldn’t make it up; ⁦ Ministers ⁩⁩ hand responsibility for monitoring British fishing boats to a French company - ⁦@thetimes⁩ https://t.co/0GFF7h4viZ

— Gareth Thomas MP (@GarethThomasMP) December 13, 2020

 

Our great leader, (or is it dear leader), has saved the day...

Brexit trade deal possible within days after Johnson concession, says EU
Barnier says PM’s acceptance of need for ‘evolution clause’ as standards diverge has unlocked talks

HURRAH!

A post-Brexit trade and security deal could be sealed as early as this week after Boris Johnson made a key concession over the weekend, the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has told the bloc’s ambassadors in Brussels.

Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.​

But, as usual with Johnson, he's also liable to screw it up at some point, possibly involving this...

Barnier warned, however, that the negotiations on EU access to British fishing waters had gone backwards. The UK tabled a paper on fisheries Monday only to take it off the negotiating table on Thursday, he claimed.​

I suppose it could be argued if you give way on one thing, you want something in exchange but I'm guessing that's giving them too much credit.

 

Yeah, we're taking control back... and giving it the french.

 

Maybe intentionally. maybe unintentionally. Both are equally likely.

 

If the argument is made that they were intending to offer a better deal on fish in exchange for more flexibility on the LPF that makes sense. It's also possible that that is what they said and the other lot are putting it n way that makes Johnson look bad for their own, political, considerations.

The problem is that, with Johnson being a known and proven liar, pretty much everyone that isn't a hardline brexiteer, thinks he's lying. On that basis you can understand the EU wanting tie it all down pretty tightly.

 

Yeah, it's not as if he signed the withdrawal agreement which committed both sides to maintaining a level playing field, then looked to undermine that same agreement.

 

as for the fisheries issue ...

part of Negotiations 101 is making a huge deal out of something you really couldn't care less about - and banging on about it constantly - in an attempt to get the other side to give in on an issue you do care about on a quid-pro-quo basis.

it's so blatant it's like watching a cop show using the old good cop / bad cop interrogation technique. the EU side will be rolling their eyes in private about it.

 

Honestly, this isn't even that great a strategy. The best negotiations are to identify common ground, build a framework for cooperation in the room, and then start to chip away at the obstacles. The public focus on fishing and Northern Ireland and "sovereignty" has always been a big sign to me that both sets of negotiators had some relatively weak strategies.

 

The proportion of people, (AKA 'voters'), in the UK that care about fishing as an issue is vastly higher than it should be based on it's importance to the economy. But you're right in saying that the tories don't care about it now any more than they did when they sold it down the river in the 1970's.

Then it was all about the interests of farmers, (so, rich landowners), and the city of London, (so, banking and finance), over the interests of fishing communities that tend to be poorer and working class.

That's largely why Norway's didn't agree to join the EU, (technically, at least), at the same time we did... because of the importance of fishing to their economy.

The only other thing to say is that, strictly speaking, one could say the same in the other direction. If it's a matter of almost no relevance then the EU could simply give way... that's not how politics works I'm afraid.

 

that's why I said it was Negotiations 101 and a "blatant" tactic - although "amateurish" would have been a better adjective.

 

Fishing plays to the Sovereignty crowd, with the "control our waters" BS.
There was something doing the rounds on Twitter a few days back that Games Workshop is worth more than double fishing's value to the UK economy.

 

Besides there is a romanticism accrued to fishing as a lifestyle that probably adds to its importance in people’s minds.

 

Triple. And that's likely an outdated figure; a lot of us are taking more time for the hobby what with being stuck at home.

 

Economically maybe, but it's about territory.
So politically always a major issue, regardless the economic value.

 

Well, it depends on who we're talking about,

It was an issue for the left back in the day because it was seen as Heath having caved on an issue important to poorer, coastal communities in favour of rich landowners, (farming, IOW), and the city of London, (banking and finance).

It was one of the reasons I felt bad about voting to remain back in '75 instead of following the lead of people like Tony Benn and Michael Foot who could hardly be accused of being right-wingers.

Exactly.

As Stephen Bush says in the NS...

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...s-johnson-will-struggle-deliver-win-fisheries

It's hard to fudge something that's measurable like that.

 

Most people's knowledge about economics is negligible to non-existent. Let's be honest, people often struggle to understand their own gas bill

 

I'm sure it will be sold as a major victory by Conservatives.

 

The issue of the LPF recently was about who makes the call as to which side had lowered their standards, (wages, conditions, etc.), or given state aid and what would happen about it.

TBH there would always have to be someone to decide that sort of thing. Even with the WTO the WTO 'court' can give judgements.

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/arbitrations_e.htm

 

I thought some would have explained this by now but I don't see what a low-pass filters have to do with this. We've written about music and music producers here so I guess it is time for sound engineering.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51180282

 

Britain especially England has been tops in popular music for much of the last century. I'd think you'd have much to tell us about LPF and sound engineering.

 

Uhh... What? You need to stop peddling Conservative lies, man.. LPF goes significantly further than WTO arbitration goes... LPF's standards as to what constitutes a level playing field are significantly tighter than WTO's standards and, tbh, the EU courts are significantly more strict than the WTO is.