Netherlands vs Russia Quarterfinal- Euro, 2008 [R]

Discussion in 'Knock-out Phase' started by el-capitano, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. soccermoms2

    soccermoms2 New Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Why??? Because the bozos that run USSF are not soccer savvy, nor do they have any soccer background or experience on the international level to realize the greatness that comes with coaches like Hiddink.

    Remember that recently Klinsmann was available and yet, nothing could be negotiated.
     
  2. fh 1

    fh 1 New Member

    Oct 14, 2001
    Croatia
    I think that Russians began to play remarkable football just when Arshavin came into the team in the Sweden match.
    The two matches before were not so famous.
     
  3. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Just to touch on this one more time. If the referee judged that actions of the defender should be sanctioned with a caution, it would be for unsporting behavior. Since the ball was judged to be over the goal line you could not sanction the foul as a professional foul to stop an attack since the action occured during the stoppage and before the restart in play.
     
  4. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Agree.

    I have to ask myself the same question as it was the case after their win against Sweden: Was this Russian team so strong or the Dutch so bad? :confused:

    I'm very impressed with Guus Hiddink's team once again! Technically, tactically, physically and mentally simply brilliant! Kudos!
    What has he done with his guys since the qualifiers against Israel & Andorra and the 1:4 defeat against Spain? :eek: It was absolutely stunning to see how they outplayed the best team of the group stage! I was especially surprised that they were physically absolutely superior to Holland during the whole extra time! You could get the impression that not the Dutch but the Russians had a whole week of resting before...

    Well, Russia played superbly ... but let's be honest, the Dutch were also very poor tonight! Simply not understandable after their fantastic play from the group stage.

    Congrats to Russia on a totally deserved win and the first semi-final appearance since 20 years! Arshavin & Pavlytschenko are a joy to watch!


    PS: Do you think that Guus Hiddink will be allowed to enter Dutch soil again? :)


    The former top referee Urs Meier from Switzerland said on German tv that the referee had to show the yellow-red card to the player even if the ball was out before.
     
  5. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    This incredible improvement in performance is really surprising ... but after listening to Guus Hiddink (the best manager worldwide in my eyes) on German tv (he speaks a very good German), I don't wonder anymore.

    I'm very happy that we don't have to play this young & hungry team in the semi-final...


    That surely was a huge mental and quality boost for them! I simply love this guy (did you see how easily he outplayed the shaky Dutch defence?)... :)
     
  6. Zaknaf3in

    Zaknaf3in Member

    Jul 1, 2006
    Berlin
    Well, honestly, I'm as far from being well-informed concerning the actual refereeing rules as the NASA from settling on mars. I just tried to translate what I heard of the seemed-to-be-reliable ex-referee Urs Meier on German TV. There WILL be translation as well as understanding issues from my side. Sorry about that! I think his conclusion was very similar to yours - he didn't know how exactly Michel got to his decision.
     
  7. NickyViola

    NickyViola Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    ;)

    Link_1
    Link_2
     
  8. fh 1

    fh 1 New Member

    Oct 14, 2001
    Croatia
    Of course, Arshavin is best player so far. But You know, this same Arshavin played for theRussian team in Zagreb a year ago and the Russians crossed the mid line twice in whole game.

    These are the same players, but a total different team. The best proof that sports is not only about body and fitness but also about mental strength.
    Although, I think that Hiddink makes some hard fitness program, all his teams so far (S.Korea, Australia, Holland, Russia now) were at most average when he took them (except Holland) and then became classy, especially in fitness, running and such. This may be his secret and he must be an incredible motivator and stimulator, similar to Klinsmann in this respect.
     
  9. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He mentioned (in a 5-minute interview after tonight's game) on German tv that they worked very hard during the last 3 weeks before the tournament had started and changed some things after the defeat against Spain.

    Guus Hiddink knows how to prepare a team perfectly for a big tournament! I wanted him as Rudi Völler's successor in 2004, but we decided to engage Klinsmann (what wasn't a bad choice either:).

    Bonne nuit.


    Btw: We shouldn't forget that Russia had to replace a great striker with injury (Zenit top scorer in the UEFA Cup) just a few days before the Euro had started.
     
  10. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Well, we just failed in the face of pressure, in an epic way.

    Meanwhile, King Guus showed his worth and the Russians were unleased. I enjoyed them, and I can't think of anyone I'd rather go out to than Guus.

    This Dutch team had what it takes, but one thing... As the QF came closer, a few players let a few words slip that pointed out a self-assuredness that crossed a certain line. Today it was punished by a team that was superfocused and had a battle plan that screwed up ours.

    The constant movement forced people like Kuijt out of position. The only chance we had was to put the pressure on them. As it showed, the few moments when we did, Russia looked vulnerable. But the passion and fire that saw us through earlier were missing today. We chased Russia, instead of forcing the game on to them.

    That cost us dearly.

    But wow, did Russia look dynamic today. Best of luck to them.

    Somehow, this defeat isn't as bitter as many before this one. It just is.
     
  11. midnightman

    midnightman Member

    Sep 15, 2004
    What impressed me the most is that the Russian wingmens, they went pass Dutch defenders like... EVERY TIME
     
  12. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Yeah, their playmaker also chose the wings constantly, one time the right, one time the left... Netherlands came into this came unprepared. We should've known that Guus would take us to the gates of hell... He's a smart ********er.

    Oh well, it could have gone our way still, but Russia deserved the win. I'm with Russia and Turkey now, and if Russia can keep this up, they could actually make it. Great stamina, great dynamical play, poor finishing though (except in 2nd half extra time)

    I'm proud of our boys, but we could have done better. I can't help but think that Russia was vastly underestimated. Not in the least place because I hardly rated them. Ouch :D

    Holland fail once more.
     
  13. urubelga

    urubelga New Member

    Sep 2, 2005
    Montevideo
    Congrats Russia!

    It was a pleasure to see this game, particularly Russia style of play and Arshavin talent.

    Good luck in the semis.
     
  14. David-G

    David-G Member

    Jun 24, 2007
    Miami
    Club:
    Maccabi Haifa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Israel
    I already thought Dutch supporters were a bit cynical about their team so I can't imagine what this tournament will do to them now.

    Hiddink's sides prove that fitness and stamina are more important in football (especially internationally) than skill. I mean they played their best in the last 10 minutes of extra time which is absolutely amazing. Congrats to Russia. Here's to a Turkey-Russia final! :eek:
     
  15. billgrant88

    billgrant88 New Member

    Apr 24, 2006
    England
    Fitness is important, but let's be absolutely clear about this - Russia were the much better footballing side so had both fitness and skill with them.

    Also to people remembering the Spain game, Russia weren't all that bad then either. They struggled defensively obviously but to say they played like amateurs is ridiculous. They went forward well and their passing was as crisp as ever even without their playmaker. They just (I say just...) didn't deal with the Spanish movement in the final third of the pitch.

    Unfortunately unless Russia learn to mark then they will stumble once again against Spain. If they're still struggling to pick up players at set pieces then how are they going to deal with picking up the runs of Villa and Torres for 90 minutes?
     
  16. mrsinister

    mrsinister New Member

    Aug 5, 2003
    Hong Kong
    "All the over-hyped choker teams are being kicked out! Heleluya!" There I fixed it for you.
     
  17. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    It takes a Dutchy to beat a Dutchy I guess ;)

    Congrats to Russia... We played poor, but it does not discredit the Russian win. Fully deserved and a lesson in humility for our boys.

    And of course, much respect to Guus Hiddink. The man is the one remaining god in football. I wish him and Russia the highest reward, and I think they can pull it off.
     
  18. soccermoms2

    soccermoms2 New Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Another worrisome thing is that Spain has a tendency to choke like the Dutch. They've consistently underachieved and unless they break the cycle, they will fall against a Hiddink led team with momentum. Hiddink knows their defensive weaknesses and will take advantage of it.

    Besides, they still have to get past Italy...another upset in the making if they don't have a unified focus. Their advantage is their pace and their youth against a kind of aging Italy.
     
  19. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Russia was almost impossible to defend tonight, although I'd give a team like Italy a decent chance. NL got suckered, which is something I think many people were waiting for... Can't keep luck on your side all the time.

    Dammit... Can't help but think that this was unnecesary (sp?) and a waste of good alcohol. I had two hot chicks at home, but this didn't help. J'accuse! :(
     
  20. billgrant88

    billgrant88 New Member

    Apr 24, 2006
    England
    I'm not too sure. Russia have been comfortable, well sort of, against the likes of Sweden, the Dutch and Greece because none had as much mobility up front as Spain.

    From what I saw of the Netherlands in this tournament (I didn't watch the Romania game) I noticed they relied on attacking on the break or converting from set pieces. Ruud had been very good as had Kuyt but they offered nothing of the threats that the Spanish attacks did in that first game. Spain could rely on the movement and pace of the front 2 and the passing ability of the likes of Xavi and Iniesta. Spain didn't need to throw the fullbacks forward to create chances as they had enough creativity in midfield to stretch Russia. That also meant Russia, although appearing dangerous never had the extra man on as many occasions as they did against you.

    Spain had 20 shots to Russia's 13, it was a very open game. The difference was Russia couldn't find the space in the Spanish half as much as they would have liked. Spain only seemed to play with one real winger, who was on the left, which is probably why Ramos was as far forward on the right as he was. Actually I think the stats showed out of all the Spanish players Ramos put in the most tackles, so perhaps he was stopping Zhirkov further up the pitch to nullify his attacking threat.

    If Hiddink pulls this one off he is a genius.

    (please note most of that post is probably gibberish. I'm only posting to delay the commencement of my cardio session ;) )
     
  21. Khaloisha

    Khaloisha Member

    Jun 15, 2007
    Milano
    There weren't Arshavin, and with him on the field would had been another match.
     
  22. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I don't know if I was clear in my earlier postings, but for the sake of clarity I want to reiterate the following:

    1. Even if the ball was out of play, over the goal line for a goal kick, Kolodin the Russian player could be judged to have committed an action (not a foul, since you cannot foul when the ball is out of play or before the restart of play) which could result in a caution or send off.

    2. A referee can rescind a caution or send off acting on advise of his AR or on his own, but only prior to the restart of play.

    I have a ton of questions on this incident.

    1. Why didn't Michel observe proper mechanics and look back to his AR to see he raised his flag while the ball was on the goal line or immediately thereafter?

    2. What happened with the communication device? Did it not work? Is that why he ran over to the AR?

    3. Why so quick to issue the caution?

    4. Did the AR advise on the foul or non-foul from that distance?

    5. Why show the card and then rescind it?

    6. Did he rescind the caution on advise from the AR, or because he saw the player already had a caution? It would drive my crazy to think he rescinded the caution on seeing the player already had a caution. That would be a completely bush league decision.



     
  23. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So are you agreeing with me that Michel should have consulted earlier prior to pulling the card or you have no issue that he created confusion with rescinding the caution and send off of Kolodin?
     
  24. ViscaBarca

    ViscaBarca Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    London
    not sure whether it was already pointed out or not, but the russians certainly have an advantage in that they are mid-season. their spring-autumn season gives their clubs a disadvantage in european club football, but in tournaments like these they should be fitter than anyone else. and now that russian clubs can affort to keep their best talent..
     
  25. de Berenboot

    de Berenboot New Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Tuitjenhorn
    It looked like a qualification match, so horrible it was from the dutch side. The Russians deserved to win. If we didnt have Van der Sar on goal, but Timmer or Stekelenburg, it could have been 0-5 (normal time).
     

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