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Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jun 21, 2014.
battle of the 532
How do you think Depay would play as a number 10 in Sneijder's place?
I have been wondering about this myself.
There was a really good ball from Depay on Robben (just off side) showing his vision once again. He is also very good in hold up play. Downside is his inaccuracy in passing. However with the way Sneijder is passing that hardly is an argument anymore. Fer is also good in a commuting position over there between midfield and attack. Would also add in dead ball defense and attack. I thought Fer vs Colombia was his best game in Orange ever. In that role he is great.
Kongolo is better. The second goal started with a Kongolo header he won I think. Maybe I should look again to be sure. Did well in the minutes he was on. He is not a wing back though.
It's not quite the beautiful game we play, but to me it's so much easier to enjoy this football than it was 4 years ago. This 8-2 formation (as also Sneijder is only defending) doesn't have that cynical, nasty habit of the 6-4 formation of 2010, helped by the lack of quality this time.
And, the defending really isn't park the bus style. Just like against Spain it's all done in a narrow part close to the half way line, vulnerable to over the topp passes but none of them really dangerous (unlike against Spain, when it all was new).
But Van Gaal and his great philosophies about dominant, possession-based football... Now we really don't want to have the ball. We just don't want it. No thanks, keep that thing for yourself - unless there's a chance of something big, than we go! See Janmaat bursting forward after a succesful interception, see Robben.
Telling is none of our midfieldplayers was to been seen playing football. Sneijder had one (great!) pass to Robben in the Spain match and came in scoring position twice, then. De Guzman was changed only because Van Gaal writes everything down and so noticed he was still on the field. Wijnaldum was only seen by the administrating official.
Still, I like it. Depay!
I hope the KNVB permanently adopts defensive, counter-attacking football as of now. What have we won with beautiful, attacking football??! Absolutely nothing (other than fans).
Just stick 5 defenders and 2 holding mids in front of goal, and kill teams on counters. A country like Holland which has good technique and speedy wingers is always assured of at least quarterfinals in tournaments (okay, not always, but most of the time)
No please, defensive football it's for Mourinho.
Anyway man, Spain didn't won trophies with defensive football, but you don't have good defenders like the attackers....
I'm kind of tired of this false dichotomy between ''beautiful football and losing'' and ''defensive football and winning''. As if it's that simple . We played defensive football before in 2010. We destroyed Italy and France with counter football in 2008 if I remember correctly. It's not like this is the first time we score on the counter. It might be the first time we play THIS defensively though.. I don't recall we ever had such low possession.
Sorry to say but this literally kills football in our tiny country on the long run.
Football tactics are constantly evolving and even reinvented (Jonathan Wilson's book, "Inverting the Triangle: A History of Football Tactics" is an invaluable guide). Ultimately, it is the quality and ability of the players that has to dictate the strategy. What Cruijff was able to do led to one approach and the presence of two strong attackers such as Robben and van Persie lead to another. The KNVB needs only one approach - focus on football skills from the beginning and the tactics will then follow.
Depay has been nothing short of Brilliant Oranje for Holland i would find a spot to start Depay vs Mexico.
Looking forward to the Netherlands vs Mexico thread.
As pragmatism it is OK, but as guiding principle it is just wrong.
Part of why Netherlands grew above the Saarland and Luxembourg level was also a different approach in nurturing players. Beyond doubt.
As I said before, I really do not think that adopting a more counterattack oriented tactics would get in the way of developing technical, creative young players.
Nah, we don't play defensive, we don't park the bus, but we do park the "van" sometimes LOL
According to The Guardian UK, yesterday's match was the first in about twenty years that a Dutch team played without a "van" on its players roster
Agreed Van Gaal just proved it was the correct tactic vs Chile where Holland only needed to draw or win to win group that was excellent coaching.
I'm certain a more attacking style of Dutch football will return vs Mexico.
All of the bigger countries have switched to this approach, in particular youth level.
That includes the very traditionalist countries as England and Italy. The home of catenaccio is moving away, and looks to Sacchi for main inspiration, who in turn has been inspired - to a great extent - by the Netherlands.
The usually traditionalist England is finally also switching to small playing pitches, 5 vs 5, and one vs one defence at youth level. Without spare man at the back.
Because science has told them that this is the right way.
I completed reading through this book:
The influence of the Netherlands is also a major theme (and vice versa).
Then we have also Joachim Low, stating similar things.
The numbers of ball contact you have during a match invariably contributes to improvements. To train with the idea of 20% possession and be satisfied with 70% pass accuracy is not the right way.
Yes, as small country you should do something that others don't do. That's also why an distinctive style has won hearts and sponsors. But to adopt this mentality would be very stubborn, and contradicting the way football in all major countries is moving forward. It contradicts simple science and knowledge.
Not to mention that the Netherlands doesn't decide the dominant interpretations of how the game ought to be played. This etiquette is decided and influenced by the leading powers.
Said the example before, but when Holland played England in 1977, the Wembley crowd booed the Netherlands. Why? Because Netherlands kept possession for a few minutes. Weaving passes. That was back then not accepted, and seen as unsportsmanlike behaviour. Yet the ability involved had also admirers. Times change.
Yes ... but we will not go back to teaching kids hoofball on full size pitches. And as domestic games go, both teams can't have 20-35% possession. As long as our approach in training remains focused on the right things like handling speed, creative passing, feeling comfortable while having the ball (which are all just as important in lightning-fast counter attacks as they are in any other tactic of choice) there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to continue raising new little Robbens or Bergkampjes.
In a counter-attacking environment it is harder to raise players comfortable in small spaces. As well as good individual defenders. That's why you place them one-vs-one in the youth, without security behind them.
There's no denying the uniqueness of the Dutch - the only country to have lost in three WC finals and at present we're in great shape at Brasil 2014, yet media and fans are questioning the long-term integrity of the Dutch game after 3 matches into our 5-3-2- exploration
If anything, this is all great constructive analytical approach.
It's still too soon to assume anything, methinks. But one thing's certain - cannot introduce that winning mentality at too young of an age. Don't ever fall for that Italian mentality at U21 and earlier where the perceived focus is to train to win first, rather than develop techniques and personality
I understand that. You need to tailor different systems as to what your current level of talent is.
I just wish KNVB would start focusing more on developing world class defenders, and focus more on the defense part of football, as opposed to the offense part
The way we play now is dictated by the circumstances. But as long as we stay true to our believes in the training and coaching of our kids there is nothing to be worried about. The same spirit stays alive!
My top 2 teams in WC2014...
I don't think any of the South American teams including Brasil are as quality as the Netherlands or Germany but they do have home pitch fan advantage. France has scored 8 goals but vs weaker sides. USA still could surprise coming out of their group but I think Netherlands & Germany are the class of this WC. Holland are in great shape going forward to win WC2014.
You missed out france, even without ribery they look dangerous and tore us apart a few months ago
We were missing 4 or 5 starters though. Plus it was a friendly, they mean nothing