Netherlands vs Argentina - WC Semi Final 2014

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 6, 2014.

?

What will happen in this game?

Poll closed Jul 9, 2014.
  1. Argentina will win with a big margin (3 goal difference).

    1 vote(s)
    3.7%
  2. Argentina will win with a small margin.

    9 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. No it will go into penalty's and only after that Argentina will have the win.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Penalty's and Netherlands will win, just like against CR.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Modest win for Netherlands.

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%
  6. Netherlands will do Spain again and give Argentina a spanking.

    7 vote(s)
    25.9%
  1. Sam_TO

    Sam_TO Member

    May 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    So I'm listening to TSN's podcast and they said LvG was asked post game why Vlaar was picked first. His justification? "Because he was the best player on the pitch today".

    Laughable.
     
  2. ihatewaiting4years

    Apr 29, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I really don't understand this decision? Does Huntelaar have a bad history with PK's?
     
  3. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It's the English/United media who look at every fart to proclaim van Gaal being a genius master mind. Really annoying.

    Reality is that he made some awful decisions as well. His choice for Cillessen lead to this situation we had to sub him out for penalty's, now in this game we could not after 3 forced subs. In WC's/Euro's you can not have a keeper that looks like a dear caught by the headlights when standing there to stop a penalty.

    Van Gaal also kept faith in RvP. We carried him 2 KO games, this third turned out fatal.
     
  4. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    He was the 5th man. LVG was over-confident that we'd go till the 5th PK after last match.
     
  5. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Starting De Jong to take him off at 60 minutes. Starting RVP & Cillesen. LVG has made so many mistakes that he does not have enough sub to rectify it.
     
  6. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  7. ihatewaiting4years

    Apr 29, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    wow if this is true. i wonder what happened?
     
  8. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Elko Born @Elko_B · 6m
    Louis van Gaal: 'When you play in a tournament, you go for first place, and then it doesn't matter whether you finish third, fourth, fifth'

    Elko Born @Elko_B · 5m
    Louis van Gaal: 'The team has put in a fantastic performance. Lots of things went right, that's why we reached the semi-final.'

    Elko Born @Elko_B · 3m
    Louis van Gaal: 'I thought it was necessary to take out Van Persie, because he was on his last legs and he wasn't a target man anymore'

    Elko Born @Elko_B · 2m
    Louis van Gaal: 'If I had the chance, I would have subbed Cillessen again. But I didn't get that chance' (via NOS)

    Elko Born @Elko_B · 23s
    Louis van Gaal: 'If you look at this tournament, we've done great. We survived the most difficult group, I believe.' (via NOS)

    Elko Born @Elko_B · 15s
    LVG: 'I think we have done too little with our domination. But Argentina is a better organised team than the other teams we have played'
     
  9. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't have an issue with starting de Jong since putting anyone else there would be a gamble as well. It's possible LVG only expected to get say 60 from Nigel (maybe they discussed?) and he was hoping at that point that Messi would have been neutralized so that would be less of a gamble than starting with Blind or Clasie as DM. That said, I would have given time to Clasie in the CR game so it could be seen how he'd react. He did very well today I thought.

    But I agree re Cillessen, should not start him if you think he can't stop PKs. Same with RvP, you have to bench him, use his illness as an excuse if you must.
     
    sonicdream repped this.
  10. CanadaHolland

    CanadaHolland Member

    Apr 20, 2009
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Both teams played a very ultra tentative 1st half playing not to lose. 2nd half Oranje dominated possession as Argentina bunkered but could not generate quality chances. Kuyt's attempted crosses into the box to service dutch strikers were consistently atrocious as were most of Wesley's corners. The way the game started and continued on it looked doomed to go to penalties from the start and somebody has to lose unfortunately this match it was Holland.

    I thought LVG had a good tournament as Holland's manager up until the semi final. After what Krul showed vs CR why not start him or sub him in again? Vlaar had a great WC but as soon as I seen him approach the ball to take the penalty I felt this was the wrong choice by LVG. Also when Kuyt and Wesley were not performing I would have liked to have seen LVG get off his ass for a change and get after his players to play better he is far too static on the bench. TV commentators here said Holland should have attacked more with a 4-3-3.

    Still it was a great tournament by the Netherlands making it all the way to the semi final congrats.

    Germany are a far better team than Argentina I think their only hope to win the final is by either attacking the Germans like Ghana did and almost beating them or bunkering to penalties. Argentina is far better than Brasil at the backend so doubt we see a German blowout in the final.
     
  11. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm a sore loser, I don't ;-P
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No we never were close. Penalty's are an art. A religion. If you feel that we were close you do not pay enough respect to disciple of penalty taking. Romero stopped a good penalty from Sneijder. Vlaar had a bad, bad penalty. Cillessen was a rabbit caught by the headlights. That is a world of wrong. Penalty's is about having every detail right. Putting a keeper in goal that has never stopped a penalty in his life is then a complete cluster f*ck of not having an important detail in check.

    We were miles away from a win if penalty's are seen as a religion. Too much was left to chance and top sport is all about punishing unprofessional behavior and decisions. Our decision was to put a keeper on goal that has never saved a penalty in his life. Not at NEC and not at Ajax and not in the Dutch NT. Not against Spain, not against Australia and not in this shoot out.

    Argentina punished that and so they won.
     
  13. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Thing is changing Keepers Mid tournament is risky business. Cilessen otherwise today was totally solid and even did a couple of risky shimmies and had some good catches/Punches.

    He changes keepers and then Krul makes a error it's more costly. You cannot make your game plan around penalties. It was odd but Argentina looked more tired in extra time almost.

    That clasie sub made a real difference in the control of the ball.
     
  14. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm very disappointed of course but this is nowhere near as bad as 2010, 2000 or 1998. Or even that stupid WC qualifying game in Ireland in 2001. Particularly since I had low expectations going in
     
    richsavare repped this.
  15. Roofvogel

    Roofvogel Member

    -
    Netherlands
    Jun 17, 2014
    Club:
    FC Groningen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I will never cheer for Germany.
    Even Brazil, who lost horribly, should still 'hope' for a German win.

    Supporting an arrogant neighbour?! Never..
     
  16. CanadaHolland

    CanadaHolland Member

    Apr 20, 2009
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well...interesting quote from Van Gaal...he gambled subbing in Huntelaar who could only muster up a yellow card...instead of leaving his final substitution open for Krul.

    And in a tentative game like that with few chances starting Krul would not have hurt the team very likely as Cillisen really was never tested all shots were right at him, whatever.
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Krul has save 2/20 PKs in the EPL, not particularly great. Also, we wouldn't even be talking about Neuer today had Rene Adler not gotten hurt in 2010 as he was the German #1 ahead of Neuer.
     
  18. 2nd_striker

    2nd_striker Member

    May 21, 2008
    London
    Two penalty shoot outs were too much. But you need people to step up for pens, if vlaar volunteered fair enough, but i think those (if any did and knew they were better than vlaar) need to have a look at themselves.

    LvG did well to get us here and it could have been better!
     
    MrOranjeBal repped this.
  19. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Krul is decent. Cillesen could not save a PK aimed at his hands.
     
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Clasie is a lovely little player who accelerates the ball circulation and creativity on midfield. He is just a bit weak in shielding defense. I would have liked him on midfield against the weaker nations, though in this game he did well also. Deserved more minutes this WC.
     
    windycity, MrOranjeBal and Cevno repped this.
  21. Sam_TO

    Sam_TO Member

    May 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Another thing to consider is Cillessen might have been beaten even before the penalty shootout.

    You have to wonder whether Van Gaal's decision to use Krul vs. CR effected Cillessen's confidence. I think that would have rattled almost every keeper to know that the coach has no confidence in you to save the team in a shootout.

    I agree that Van Gaal shouldn't have started van Persie. He's progressively gotten worse with every game, and he was absolutely dreadful today. His pace is gone...I don't know if it's injuries or what, but he was awful today. Completely invisible.
     
  22. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's what I thought... Go 433 and maybe through on Depay... Even though he was a bit rubbish last game....

    Oh well they did well. Too slow in midfield today for sure. But Messi was just as invisible as RvP was. Again. Huntelaar was actually better at holding possession once he came on.

    The Vlaar penalty... First? Really? When you know the team that takes the first statistically has a 60 chance to win. I do not get that.

    Vlaar was great today btw .
     
  23. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    @DRB

    From the 80th minute on, I sensed that Argentina were beginning to tire even more than us. Incidently, at that moment too, we were seizing them, cutting out their passing lanes to their forwards and were able to press. I thought if we were going to pull another off, it was the time. But failed crosses after another, and that chance never came. That's just one scenario.

    And then the penalties.

    And the biggest one, really goes back to the CR game. Didin't want to bring it up, but back in 60th min I was calling for RvP's head by then, and thought to myself, unless LvG sees something in training, or knows something, there was no business starting him against Argentina.

    Admittedly vGaal carried a huge wave of support for all his right decisions - up until that point.

    So there was a marginal amount of hope that something was still to be expected of vPersie. But that never came, and a whole 100 minutes wasted in the SF, including the amount of precious time against CR in the QF.

    And in the end, vPersie did not deliver, Robben was exhausted largely because if vP, and Sneijder could not connect. Neither could Kuyt, but I just can't criticize him, for all that he had contributed.

    Putting this all into context, yes, I see them collectively as a situation that "we came so close", but couldn't deliver. Hence the bitterness
     
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We lost as out academy system does not produce complete keepers. This nonsense of 1 keeper in regular time and another able to stop a penalty. That is not the way forward. A country like Netherlands with a keeper like van der Sar produced recently should be able to do better, though van der Sar was also late to master the penalty. Only at Fulham or even United he became better.

    This game is feed back in this department.
     
  25. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Let's call up Kenneth Vermeer and start him in every KO game and play for penalties. This is the best strategy.
     

Share This Page