I agree. While MAE is not the same player from 96, he is still a leader and as he demonstrated Saturday, he can still carry the team on his shoulders when the going gets tough. You dont just change captains every week based on who is playing well. Marco carries a lot of history and respect withing the organization. Besides, Nelly might leave DCUnited in the offseason. MAE since 1996.
when hudson decided it was time for etch to give up the armband i really thought that olsen should have been the one in charge...sorry but im not real big on nelsen
CHICO13: back to your original question... I think Nelsen is doing a fine job as a player and captain. There seemed to be some sparks and division in the locker room when he first took the armband, but those have subsided, or at least they are not obvious to guys like me, without inside information. The team has a better record now. I dont know to what extent that has anything to do with the captain, but obviously team performance has not suffered due to the change. And POSTERS OUT THERE: I thought these posts were supposed to be for people to discuss and exchange ideas, not to attack posters for bringing out a valid question or being fans of MAE. Remember these boards may not reflect the opinion of the majority of DCU fans, who I think are more likely to be fans of MAE than Diablo bashers like many of you appear to be. If you disagree, that is OK. I want to hear from you. I will never be "done arguing with you."
You may not like being jumped on as a soap box Marco proclaimer. With that in mind, don't do it to others. You are being a bit thin-skinned on this thread. I'm a big fan of Etch, but he's clearly not the leader of this team anymore. He was a great Captain for the past few years, but Nellie has more thatn filled that role. One thing not mentioned in the 10 list was discipline, and I don't simply mean avoiding cards. The team is playing with more form and poise than they have in years, and much of that has been in the last 3 months. Coincidentally, this corresponds with the turnover of the armband. To be honest, I don't know how this thread has gotten as much response as it has. I think it's that cut and dry. All the same, as I said in another thread, it's good to see Etch continue to prove the doubters wrong with performances like Saturday's.
I think the easiest way to judge a captain is by how the team responds to him and who the team seeks out for leadership. Right now, based on what I have seen, Nellie is doing a good job. A small example is that after the game saturday the players being worn and tired started to head off the field and a DCU player/staff (actually It looked like Nick) got Nelsons attention and Nelson got other members of the team to come over to the DC Fans and appauld. Clearly this is not conclusive evidence that Nelson is a good captain or a bad captain but it tends to show that the team looks to Nelson and listens to him or at least respects him as captain. (plus I just liked story) I think his play and leadership on the field is also evident. Additionally, I think that one of the reasons for the change in captains armband is that every player respects Nelson and does not have serious issues with him or his play. On a team with strong personalities that is important. Despite whatever side of the Marco line (as opposed to the Opra line ) you are in it is evident that while all members of the team respect Marco and he still does show leadership and experiance on the field, not all members of the team are happy with Marco's play, his treatment or Marco himself. That is not a bash on Marco but it is clear that he is more devisive as a leader than Nelson.
PR or not (and it probably was), I recall Ray saying, when the armband was given to Nellie, that it was to free Marco up in his last year(s) to just have fun, and not have to worry about the responsibilities of being a captain, to be able to just play again and enjoy himself. I think both players do a fine job of mentoring and talking to and taking up for their teammates. It is always interesting to see who gets the armband when Nelson's away or subbed out. I sometimes get a kick out of (not just for United) when the player comes off and hands the sub the armband and the guy runs around looking for someone to take it from him.
I'm confused. I thought that point 1 that JoeW made was "does the team do better with the captain?" Considering that United has had one captain the past three years until Nellie became him this season, how does point 1 describe Marco? This is a rhetorical question as far as I understand it...as there is no basis of comparison outside of Nelsen. That comparison shows pretty clearly that the team is doing better this season (remarkably) under Nelsen's leadership than it was under Marco's. Now, wasn't it the case earlier that this thread was to be about Nelsen and Nelsen only? Tim
And now a little extra, yes Diablo is old, but stull commands respsect, does that validate him to still be captain even though Nellie' s a rock of a defender and so on.... There is another defender that to me, average guy, seems as solid as Nellie, a guy that demands resepct, a stud of a defender, a vocal leader, and that would be Mr. Mike Petke. Is it because that it's his first year from the scum that he's not mentioned in the captain contreversy? Not being a smart-ass, but seriously asking one of you experts what does Nellie do that Mike does not?
Nelsen does have the benefit of being on the team longer than Petke and, quite frankly, he's in less card trouble (can you lead if you're spending a lot of time on the bench or not at the game? Maybe, I'm asking) I got nothing against Petke and I agree he does he share of organizing but he's also a hot head. I think when Ryan has gotten in ref's faces it's been warranted but otherwise I think he's pretty level headed (and with Petke, Dema, Marco, Stoitchkov and even Stewart at times somebody needs to be). I also think he's well liked by his peers (I have heard about grumblings about Marco from other team members). I think not being captain has allowed Marco to just play. I haven't looked at the stats but has Marco been in less foul trouble this year? It seems so but I could be wrong. And really, does the guy actually need the damn armband to lead? At this point I would hope not. K
Nellie does not have the stench of SCUM lingering over him. It will take Petke more than a season to get rid of that stench.
Also, from the totally hearsay/scuttlebutt scraps of locker room chat I've gleaned over the last few years, Ryan has been doing the leading for some time now, and transferrring the armband was just recognizing what had already happened. As I've said before, I think Marco should get a huge ceremony at the end of the season, his name up in the stadium, a testimonial game, but this stuff about him playing forever, always being the captain, etc. because he did a good job 6 years ago... (shakes head) makes no sense at all. I don't get a raise next year because I aced a deliverable in 2001. And I don't get entry into the stadium if I bring a 1998 game ticket.
Hey if anyone should be captain, it should be Kovalenko, He has been playing with heart. Nelsen has the victories but has he really done anything for us, I mean he is not a goal scorer, he is a so-so defender, and he is not that great of a leader. People also should realize that the team has changed since Marco was captain, I mean earnie has just came back from LA-La Land.
Damn, does that mean I should throw those away? I like remembering Marco as a great captian, and I like the new one. And besides, knowing Ray, it has nothing to do with leadership, it's all based on the harriest chest.
It seemed that Etch and Ray were not seeing eye to eye early on (don't know if they are now, but winning covers up a lot of things) and you cannot have the head coach and captain not getting along. Could the change have waited until the offseason? Probably, but at the time of the change, Marco was a part time player who was fighting injuries and his own fitness.
i think all those years moreno was playing for us he should have been giving the armband a couple of times when marco, or agoos were not playing. just a thought. he will get the 200 pts very soon.
There were a lot of other factors in that game. We had just beaten them a few days before, it's a game with playoff implications, and we had a rather card-happy ref. The fact that it was Mathis, and not one of our players, who finally boiled over says to me that we were the more disciplined of the two teams. Judging a captain is extremely subjective. Some players are obvious leaders, some aren't. After that, picking the best one is difficult. I think in most cases, your captain should be a player similar to the coach. Hudson probably sees more of himself, his way of thinking, in Nelsen than anyone else we have. He seems like the kind of guy that can inspire the people around him and get them fired up. Marco seemed like more of a quiet leader and got too involved with officials to keep the armband. I disagree. On points 1, 3, 4, and 5, Nelsen has very clearly shown himself to be stronger. Take the work rate one...it's well known that if we use Etch, we have to surround him with very hard workers to make up for his lack of defending. True, his work rate has improved, but it's still low. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad...there are a good number of situations where having the possibility of that special play that only resides in Etcheverry is the best option (witness this past game at Columbus). However, it's things like that that make me think Nelsen is a better captain. We don't have to readjust the entire team to fit to him. Regardless of our formation and who has what role, you know Nelsen is going to be the best player in the back. In Chico's defense, he didn't harrass me at all. Maybe he could have handled some of the other responses better, but he's not being belligerent either. Who amongst us has no favorites on the team? I disagree. This team has responded more to Nelsen than it has to Etcheverry. History is nice, but it's not going to score us any goals. Don't mistake this for downplaying Marco's contribution to this team...even if I believe Moreno at his best was the best player MLS has ever had, Etcheverry is still the most important player this team has ever had. That said, it doesn't make him the best captain right now. If Nelsen is given the armband by Hudson and then gives it back to Etcheverry, imagine the problems that can come to that. Regardless of who the captain is, Hudson should be in charge. Giving the armband back like you suggest would indicate that, at the very least, our best defender doesn't respect the coach. At worst, it could mean the whole team doesn't respect him. Well said.
I didn't think this thread would get this much attention, and I appaulad the fact that it's got away from the "Marco vs. Anti-Marco" flavor, that seemed a little harsh. Anways good point made about Ecth, at this point is the symbol of captain-hood that important? The guy is like Larry Bird the last few years he played, a little older, a little slower, more injuries, but, come on he's a winner. He's kinda the leader anyway. The Kovelenko remark also seems very cool, first because he's one of the few United that I've seen score (personal bias) but with that he went on a mid season tear, 2 NE games, the LA game. If he could keep that level of play consistently, he would get my vote. But do you have to be the big "swinging penis" (stole that from another thread) goal scorer to be captain? Is Ruiz LA's skipper?
Am I the only person who remembers when this happened at DC? Probably not. I think the contrast in the two situations is striking.
#11 Consistent member of the best 11, i.e., starting and playing most/all games Honestly I think it was this more than anything else.
yellow = good captain? what are u saying here? that Nellie should have gotten a card in that game in order to be a good captain. because if that is what you believe then marco was the best example for a captain yet. he loved to argue and get cards for dissent. if Nellie did not get a card in that game then i think he is a great example of a quality captain. anyone else on the dc united side would have not had the temperment of Nellie during that particular match and would have been cautioned
I assume you wrote this with tongue firmly in cheek. Otherwise, Luis, watch the games! As a defender, Nellie has scored some big goals. He's been a rock back there and made our backline, for 3 seasons was our biggest liability, one of our biggest assets. As for being a leader, on what evidence? Have you been in the locker room? Camped out at practices? How can you comment on his leadership?