Nelson as Captain

Is Nelsen the new Etch Apologist target?

According to Goff Nelsen took over as captain in Dallas on July 2. Before that Etch was captain.

Our record from April 12 - June 28: 2-6-4 (W-D-L)

Our record from July 2 - Sept 28: 8-1-5 (W-D-L)

Make of it what you will.

 

Because I saw this in the Etch interview thread - posted right before you started this thread.

I thought it fairly reasonable connection for me to make in light of your comment above.

 

I'm not sure what this thread is even supposed to be about. Was Nelsen supposed to start scoring more goals, or getting more assists? He's still our best defender, one of our only all-star quality players, and as good a leader by example as we have. You don't see Nelsen getting into running spats with officials like Etcheverry or Stoitchkov, or getting overemotional (like Stewart did when nothing was going right for him). I don't think there's a better choice for captain of this team. In fact, I'd say that Nelsen is as good a captain as you're going to find in MLS.

I guess what I'm saying is, what is this thread about? Captain doesn't mean more goals, or anything else you can quantify with stats outside of our record, which is hugely improved. If we don't notice Nelsen too often during a match, that's probably good. Personally, I've always found it good when you don't notice a defender too much.

 

Whatever. It obviously wasn't arbitrary. And what any of this has to do with me being a moderator is quite obscure. I'm through arguing this. JAnderson14 is right. If you want to talk about Nelsen as captain maybe you should specify what we're supposed to evaluate here. I made a very valid comparison of our records this year with Etch and Nelsen as captain. We've gotten a much better winning record with Nelsen as captain. Is he the cause. Maybe not totally but I suspect he is in part.

 

Again ...

 

question asked, definitive answer given. thread over.

 

So you're saying he should have gotten in the face of the ref and drawn a couple of dissent cards and gotten thrown out?

Are there any documented instances of a ref retracting a card just because the captain of the carded team asked him to? And even if we find a few does it happen often enough for the captain of the team to risk getting carded for dissent when he knows how crucial he is to the team?

One of the things I absolutely HATE about Marco is how fast he loses his temper and confronts refs. It's childish and usually makes him look like an ass. But worse, it's pointless and does the team more harm than good.

So if Nellie restrained himself from fighting with the ref, then that's just another tick in the pro Nelsen column for me.

 

Seems like the only thing we fans know about Nellie's captain perforamce is that in the miracle comeback vs NE, he allowed Q2 to take the PK. Good decision allowing a younger players who was feeling his oats to make the crucial shot.

 

Good question. I think there's a lot of stuff going on in the locker room, huddles, practices, etc. that we don't see. I think the players are really the best judge of that.

Fans are best equipped to evaluate Captain Morgan. IMO, he remains effective as ever.

 

Wins and Losses

 

Okay then, please elaborate on your comment. I wouldn't have to assume if you'd say what you realy mean instead of the incredibly vague posts we've seen here.

 

I judge a team captain on a couple of standards:

1. Does the team do better? It would appear so in this case (given his record).

2. Is he highly regarded and respected by his teammates (so he's credible with them). It would appear so.

3. Is he a good representative to the Ref on the field? It would appear so (recall the conversation in Dallas where Prideaux' second yellow mysteriously disappeared and he stayed in the game after Nellie's conference).

4. Is he a cool head when others might lose there (maintaining order and organization on the field)? Yes--he's probably our best defensive organizer and clearly doesn't get a lot of cards for abuse or losing control.

5. Is he willing to do the dirty work? Yes (talk to Donovan about this), especially in terms of workrate, tracking back, hard tackles (when necessary), covering for others, playing different positions as necessary.

6. Is he a source of division or union on the team? It would appear he's not divisive.

7. Is he a leader on the field? I think so--he's regarded as a defensive organizer, he's vocal and the other players listen to him.

8. Is he a voice for the players to the team management and coaching (ie: voice unpopular views to the coach)? Can't say. Hudson clearly respects him but this is a "mano a mano" kind of thing that unless you're a fly on the wall when Ryan and Ray chat, you'll never know for sure.

9. Is he someone most or all of his teammates connect with? I'd guess so (but again, without surveying players, its hard to say absolutely). He's got a college background (ties to most of the US natives), is an international, has been in MLS a while, had trials in Europe. I don't know how well he connects with Hristo and Marco and Eliseo but the rest of the squad should find they have things in common with Nellie.

10. Does he step up at key moments? (ie: someone the team looks to at key moments or might pull a big play out of his back pocket)? Given his scoring last year and the recognition that he's a defender, he's probably as good as any defender-as-captain can be within MLS in this regard.

As for the "where was he during the cardfest against the Metros?" I think we can all agree that Kennedy was widely inconsistent that match. Allowing red cardable fouls to draw nothing and then pulling yellows out quickly on lesser stuff. With that much inconsistency, I"m not sure it would have been wise to confront Kennedy but only the AR's probably know for sure.

 

[R] if your a retard....

Nellie and Etch both played well and made us proud tonight. --This is the way it should be. Vamos United!

 

quote:
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Originally posted by Knave
Is Nelsen the new Etch Apologist target?
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Why do you feel the need to bring Marco into this thread?

Was he even mentioned in the title? Bag your pre-desposition and let the argument flow. Your bias is showing...

You create a thread to clearly imply that Nelsen has not done well with his captaincy, due to your bitterness that Etch is no longer captain. As soon as someone questions your motives, you jump down their throats saying you didn't mention Etch, and that the thread has absolutely nothing to do with him. You continue to harass anyone that points out your poorly disguised contempt at Etch's removal as captain. Mr. longest poster on the entire website provides TEN excellent examples of what a captain is. You can't help yourself as your underlying intent explodes to the surface to claim Etch is just as good as Nelsen on all but one point. Well guess what? You are flat WRONG. The Etch of 2003 doesnt measure up to more than half of those points. Get off your soap box and accept the fact that he is no longer the player he once was. He can still certainly turn it on for small periods of time, but is nothing more than a shadow of the player he was last century.

 

your reading way too much into what he is saying. Chico just wants an HONEST evaluation of Nellie AS HE DOES FOR MARCO.

--People are not MArco "apologists"... they are Marco pragmatists. We only ask that you judge him as you do other players on this team.

 

I love Nelly as much as the next United fan, but.....Marco should have the arm band next match and every other match he is wearing a United kit. He helped make this team what it is today. He has earned the right to captain this club. If Nelson has any respect, he would give the band back to Marco and rally behind him for what may be his last season with the club.