Two quick thoughts: Will an altercation similar to the one in Friday's game in Detroit between NBA players and fans possibly occur at a soccer field? If so, how soon? Secondly, if that problem is a real possibility, then what, if any, methods do we as referees use to help quell the altercation? Should we even get involved? Another good reason to get paid before the game is started.
I don't know what the Detroit deal was, but we have had altercations between fans & players a couple times in the last few years at one of our local men's leagues. In one case, a bad foul on the field with an injury led to fans going after the fouling player -- they literally chased him off the field and through the nearby neighborhood. Fortunately, one of his teammates was able to get to a car and catch up with him in the neighborhood for him to make his escape with nothing but a bloody nose and some bruises. In another case, players start jawing with fans when the fans started hollering about certain plays. This actually happens quite a lot. However, this one time, a bunch of fans entered the field and started fighting with the players. In both cases, the referees abandoned the game, called the police and got the heck out of dodge. Two things that anyone doing games in this kind of environment should keep in mind... get paid up front and pay attention to where and how you park. In this league, the administration pays us after the fact, so it's not an issue having to leave without getting paid. If we got paid at the fields, we'd definitely get the pay up front as JC suggests. But the other thing that we do is park away from the main place where most fans and players park, always in a position that can't get blocked in (they just park anywhere at times) and facing out so that we can just drive away without having to try to back out of a tight parking spot. This comes in handy when a game has to get abandoned for one reason or another.
Coming soon? Believe me, it has happened. Dozens of times. And, quite a bit worse than a few punches. We've had spectators with guns, knives, drugs, alcohol, and gambling. Then imagine when a group of them disagree with a call by the referee, or a foul by a player. They don't dump the beer on you, they chuck the whole bottle at your head. And the fact they are racist Mexicans (not saying Mexicans are racist, just that these ones were), and you are a white fella. Suffice to say, there are definitely soccer matches with a chance to turn much uglier than anything you saw on Friday. Luckily most of what I refer to happened a good 20-30 years ago and is not nearly as prevalent today. The nice thing about soccer is the strength of an international ruling body with a lot of power and influence. Witness the disciplining of Roma...
When I saw the clips of the NBA brawl last night I immediately thought of the Roma incident and other instances of unruly crowds and punishments from FIFA or UEFA. I wonder, does anyone think there'd be a chance of the NBA forcing Detroit to play a few games at home behind closed-doors?
Honestly, I had hoped no one would have posted, because quite honestly it is a bizzare post. Altercations happen in soccer of the type witnessed and much worse. People have been killed and hospitalized. Some recent examples were listed above. Seriously, ask yourself the question how could anyone know when the next incident take place. As far as I know we don't have the gift of prophecy. How to quell altercations? Diffuse situations before they become problematic. Learn to recognize when matches are getting chippy. Easy to see. Hard challenges followed by retaliatory challenges. Arguing. Get to it quickly caution or verbally warn players. Call both captains and tell them to knock it off and play. If an incident happens separate the teams or players and try to restart play as quickly as possible. Get the misconduct information and keep a accurate metal note of the incidents for the match report. Discuss with your the incident with your assistants. State the facts and file the report. If things become to heated abandon the match and if needed call the police and file charges. Violence should not be condoned or tolerated. It's not part of the game.
Well, looks like ESPN has picked up on the correlations to this incident and similar ones in soccer, as has David Stern and the NBA. Perhaps we will see a FIFA-type ruling on the incident? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1928030
There will be legal licensed carriers who can properly defend themselves if violence breaks out? Any argument can go two ways, but there are times and places for such arguments. Historically, we've been very disciplined about keeping politics out of our forum; I think it helps create a cordial environment here, so I'd prefer that we keep it that way. I really don't think the above one-liner was appropriate, as it certainly has nothing to do with refereeing or discipline in sports.
Whether US citizens should have the right to carry guns is something for the US people to decide as whatever you guys want to do inside your borders is your own issue. Where it becomes an issue is when visiting referees may find themselves in a situation they are not prepared for - in this case facing an unhappy spectator with a firearm. I remember one of the Waikato (an area of New Zealand) referees telling us the tale of officiating at a schoolboy tournament in one of the southern states a few years back and having to face an armed coach. As a citizen of a country where all firearms are registered and licensed he wasn't used to seeing a firearm visable on an individual. Surely this is an offence in the US or does it differ from state to state?
I'm with MassRef, keep that crap out of here. This isn't the first time you've tossed in some nationalistic BS in a post of yours, Crowdie. If a referee from outside the US is so concerned over gun possession in the States then he need not accept an assignment here.
Hey you introduced the gun concept in your post. If you don't want people to react to your comments then don't post them.
Different states (and sometimes even localities) will have their own regulations about where and under what circumstances people are allowed to carry firearms. I think that even relatively permissive states (e.g. Texas) are likely to place restrictions on things like sporting events and school grounds.
We were stating facts -- that we have to deal with weapons on spectators at games be they knives, guns, etc. We weren't making political comment on whether they should be allowed to do it or not. Whether it was meant that way or not, your comment came across that way -- as a comment on American gun policy. 2 years ago, we had a gun incident at the league I mentioned above -- but it was spectator on spectator and had nothing to do with what was happening on the field. When the gun shot went off, everyone on the field ducked, hit the dirt or ran. This is 2nd hand, I wasn't there that day. I know that the NBA has only dealt with the players and Stern even made that point in his announcement yesterday, but I'd like to see some significant action by the NBA against the fans and those responsible for controlling the fan. We had a family gather yesterday we were watching ESPN News when they showed the incident the crap heaped upon the players and related personnel as they left the arena. This was before the Stern announcement and I commented that if this was soccer and it was a UEFA or FIFA situation, Detroit would likely play 3 to 5 home games in an empty stadium as a result of that. I told them about Roma this year and that it has happened before. The NBA should have suspended the players, including the stiffer suspensions for those going into the stands, but if this thing settles out without any action against the fans & orgnization a la UEFA/FIFA, it's a crock.
NBA looks to soccer for answers Saturday, November 20, 2004 By Marc Stein ESPN.com As commissioner of the world's second most popular team sport, David Stern makes frequent references to No. 1. "Which is soccer," Stern says. full text found at http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1928030
This is a Big Deal in our area - it's getting more attention than deserved, IMO. I'm surprised nothing like this has happened before. Basketball is the only one of our big pro sports without a physical barrier between the players and fans. In that respect, it's like what we encounter every game in the parks and schoolyards. Maybe BB can borrow some of those currently-unused plexiglass shields from hockey arenas? WJR radio announced today that long suspensions have been handed out to players, in one case for the remainder of the season resulting in an approximate loss of $5,000,000 income. The County Prosecutor's office is reviewing video in order to determine criminal charges - they will not complete it until after Thanksgiving - and they would neither confirm nor deny that players might be charged. In addition, security at the Palace will be upgraded to "playoff levels".
Re: NBA looks to soccer for answers A fantastic find. So great, in fact, that I had already posted to the same story in this thread. You know what they say about great minds ...
Re: NBA looks to soccer for answers Whoops.....that's what I get for not reading the thread in it's entirety.
The point I was making is that if you are in a country where women are allowed to wear white after Labour day then you shouldn't be shocked when a female spectator at one of your games is wearing white after Labour day. It also got huge coverage down here. On the six o'clock news they played the NBA incident followed by a US college football game that turned into an all in brawl. Not a great weekend for sport
I've been threatened after a U10 AYSO match. Dad cursed at his son, I told him I would terminate the match if he didn't can it. He stated he would talk to me after the match. Knowing just what this steriod-pumped idiot meant, I had my AR stay for the post-game conversation, which I resolved would be held at the center of the field. Seems I had "dissed" this gentleman in front of his kid. He was ready to pummel me, and would have handily succeeded. Fortunately my AR was a deputy sheriff in the neighboring county, so I had a burly backup for the conversation. That's the only time I have been directly threatened, but after a bench-emptyer a year later, I had at least learned how to get to my car FAST after terminating a match. That one was fun - the school AD climbed all over us for issuing reds, stating that we didn't understand that they cost his school $50 each. He was wrong - the price escalates with each subsequent card here in OR, so they had $500 in cards, $1000 for striking a ref (player was slapping the card wallet attempting to prevent the cards from being pulled), and another $1000 for pulling the team from the field. At least there was some punishment for that fiasco. My lesson was that I don't hang around after a match at all, whether it was good or not. I hit the road, and appreciate the point made earlier about parking close and so I cannot get blocked in....
You were threatened with physical violence at an under ten match Did you report the incident to the appropriate authorities and the club/academic institution that the parent was supporting?
Ripped from today's headlines: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/23/MNGSPA04NM1.DTL Lee
Maximum kudos to Bruce Greenlee. These players/coaches/officials/supporters who believe that they have the right to assault referees have to be stopped. We had a coach here who used to verbally abuse referees during the game so we just stopped officiating at games involving his team - he soon got the point.
I felt terrible for the kid. He was playing gk, and Dad was hollering "Pick up the Damned ball!!" As to reporting the incident, I was, ahem, the proper authority (Referee Administrator and Board Member). Dad got his warning and permanent probation. Sad to say that his son never played again after that season. As nasty as that was, I have seen it worse in baseball, which has an historic legacy of argument over calls. I played in college, loved the game, yet my wife and I retired my son when he was nine due to the idiot parents. Frankly, that experience was a motivator for me to move ahead as a soccer referee - I ref because I want the kids to be able to play in a safe and fun environment, whether its U10, or U19, or high school.
Smart move - attack the referee who is a board member What does probation consist of? It is always the innocent party that ends up getting punished. Is this a serious issue in the US?