If the mods feel this doesn't belong here, so be it. I saw something tonight I've never ever seen before, in 22 years of watching this fixture. Sportsmanship. On the part of Mexico. Actually helping our guys up off the ground. TWICE that I saw. I mean, dear gawd, shoot me now: Rafa Marquez shaking hands with, while *smiling*, and exchanging a moment with Altidore. The Event Horizon is in view. The aliens have landed. Timewave Zero has sined and cosined 4 years early. The Aztec calendar must actually be on Ethiopian time. Beelezebub has a devil put aside for me. Cazart. -bs
For the most part it was a well played game by both sides. One note though is Howard got a tackle in on him on a simple ball that the forward (De Nigris I believe) had no right to even attempt to tackle away from him. Other than that it was a well played game.
Post-game the teams shook hands, which was new and improved. Overall, the sportsmanship is improving. There was the Tim Howard incident in the second half -- I bet TV missed it but there it looked like Howard and a Mex ST nearly fought. However, in the totally bs bush-league material was Mexico's horrible sportsmanship stunt in the first half. Howard collected the ball and collided with Bocanegra. Bocanegra was shook up and Howard threw the ball out-of-bounds. Rather than return the ball to Howard like good sportsmen Mexico decided to take advantage of the situation and give the US a throw-in deep in the defensive half -- pinning the US in the corner. That is the sort of non-emotion driven poor sportsmanship that I detest.
*Devils advocate* You know I bet some mexican fans would point, they could have kept the ball and not given it back at all. Now that...would have been bush league. Besides, you should know that most of the world engage and value gamemanship more than sportsmanship. Sportmanship is really a relic of the upper-class amateur roots of soccer (and athletics, arguably) in England. It never really took hold as the game spread into working-class slums and became the power it is today. Although it is a big part of of the American mindset, specially with soccer. I mainly blame AYSO though. You see more gamemanship in other American sports, especially baseball. Taking the 2nd basemen out to break up a double play, throwing a high heater to back a batter off the plate, stealing signs, hidden ball trick, spit balls and etc. Basically, if you don't get caught, it's not cheating. While in some cultures, American style pregame trash talk is considered a bigger offense than bending the rules on the field (It sorta explains why Zidane vs Materazzi). I mean, it's really a cultural misunderstanding more than anything. It's on par with you eating McD's in Mumbai. It doesn't make you an evil person or a bad person, but people around you won't get it. Honestly, it's not like either team is scoring "hand of god goals". I saw it as DeNigris trying to prove he's one of the guys and possibly make a name of himself. I was pretty shocked myself, I thought I was the only one crazy enough to do that and that's only when I play Winning Eleven on a XBox. Pretty ballsy move since he could have easily gotten a yellow or even a red, depending on the Ref. Howard should have pulled a Dida and fished for a card, instead of fighting back.
radmonkey said, "Devils advocate* You know I bet some mexican fans would point, they could have kept the ball and not given it back at all. Now that...would have been bush league. Besides, you should know that most of the world engage and value gamemanship more than sportsmanship. Sportmanship is really a relic of the upper-class amateur roots of soccer (and athletics, arguably) in England. It never really took hold as the game spread into working-class slums and became the power it is today." Soccer in England has not been known to be an upper class sport although it's roots were borne from the public schools, universities, etc. The saying is that in England, soccer is a gentleman's game played by hooligans while rugby is known as a hooligan's game played by gentleman. They gave the ball back, so, fair play to them.
I don't know. I thought the whole game was played at a very high level with good sportsmanship to boot. Yes there was the Howard-De Negris incident, but overall I was happy with the way the two teams went about their business. It's never going to be a smooch-fest. There really was a new generation of players out there for this one. Gio, Villaluz, Vela, Adu, Altidore, Bradley, Feilhaber, etc. Perhaps the days of stupidity are over. Let the young ones lead us!!!
Yup, soccer and the american culture of sports doesn't mix well. All the diving that people generally do and the fake "I'm shot" pain clinching acting would never do here. Not that we are above all that, but I think the US would have a harder time accepting a "hand of God" type win than some other people. But hell, Donovan's right though, it's just a game to us, but much more to world.
While I agree with you, I'm not sure it would have made a difference. All Howard would have done was punt the ball as far as he could anyway. Might as well throw it in and have a defender kick the ball as far as he can.
It probably helped that Jozy owned Rafa on the header... and has two inches and 10 years on him. Maybe a combo of respect and fear.
there definitely seemed to be more sportsmanship than before. i was sitting (or standing, rather) at the other side of the field from the howard incident so i missed what initiated it. but after that, there was a minor scuffle on the other side of the field. and for those that were at the game, did anyone catch the fight outside the stadium? jeez. looked like 4-5 mexico fans beating up one USA fan. then you walk over and see a huddle of people standing over one guy that was knocked out on the ground.
A bit on the Altidore-Marquez exchange at the end of the game: http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ro-altidore020608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I doubt the Mexicans would have been so nice after the game if Donovan had knicked a winner in the last minute....
Jozy was unmarked so he didnt own Rafa. Rafa throughout the game shut Jozy out, which is understandable he is world class. Do you really think Rafa who plays against the best in the world is going to fear Jozy just cuz he scored one goal. I do think he respects him though and i was also surprised on how friendly mexico was during and after the game. What I dont like is Magallon exchanging jerseys with Donovan. This is a rivalry and and jerseys should never be exchanged between rivals. This is law in Mexico, you wont see Chivas exchanging jerseys with America or Atlas. If you guys want to see this watch Chivas/Atlas this weekend and youll see this isnt unsportsman like but respect for the fans who love and hate their rivals.
I agree, until we beat them & we see a decent reaction from Mexico, we can't conclude it's a changing tide. But perhaps Hugo's team is settling in & will improve their attitude. I thought they played a lot better this year than they did last - which is ominous for us.
Most forwards can make quite a living scoring "just one goal" against players like Marquez. I wish we had a shot of Marquez on his knees earlier in the game desperately pushing Altidore on a free header when he was badly beaten. Should have been a penalty. In my view, in the last few games things have been a bit more professional from both teams. They are nowhere near as bad as 2001 and before. I do think the Mexican players respect the US much more than they used to (as they should based on results).
Exactly - just watch what happens when they receive their next Dos a Cero... they will behave the same as usual.
thats professional soccer for you bud. Rafa plays against class forwards game in and game out. The goal Jozy scored was good, he was unmarked and scored as was expected, he didnt necessarily school Rafa. Aside from the goal, Jozy never had the ball to even create chances