Nations League: Italy vs Poland

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by johnny6, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    OK there is a lot you need to know about yesterday.

    First of all: Mandzukic, Corluka, and Subasic all retired after the World Cup. Subasic was a really key goalkeeper for them. Mandzukic was a very key striker as well (Nobody decent to replace him, since Kalinic fell out with the coach). Corluka was a key defender despite not starting many of the games.

    Lovren, Strinic, Rebic, and Kramaric were all injured. Vrsaljko got injured like 13 min into the game and had to leave before any goals were scored.

    Pretty much the only decent players that played yesterday were Modric, Rakitic, Vida, and Perisic. Vida was the only decent defender on the pitch after Vrsaljko had to go off. The rest of the defenders were very inexperienced and not really that good. With Spain's new talents: Ascensio and a few others, they were able to break down Croatia's backline quite easily. Also with Subasic out, their second choice goalkeeper is Kalinic who plays in the Belgian league (alright but not really good enough if you ask me). Because of this, Modric and Rakitic had to track back and cover a lot more ground which is one of the reasons they looked shadows of themselves. Even Perisic had a lot more to do and he had nobody to assist him.

    Kovacic did start and he has potential but he is not a winger if you ask me. Rebic and Kramaric were solely missed.

    Also on Spain's side it was in Spain, and they have a new coach now: Luis Enrique.

    Anyway the point is, it is almost the end of an era for the Croatian National team, and it will take about 10-12 years at least for a new golden generation to come again. Mandzukic retired. Modric is aging and probably will not be the player he is now or in the past by Euro 2020. Rakitic is still solid and might be the only world class player that Croatia still have in Euro 2020. Lovren is inconsistent and had the season of his life last season prior to the WC. Vrsaljko has huge potential and could be world class. Now with many of Croatia's players back over time, they will not be as bad as they looked against Spain yesterday. They will still be a decent team in Euro 2020 but not competitors for the title or anything.

    The end of an era for Croatian National Team is approaching really soon.
     
  2. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    No Mandzukic, no party!
     
    Rosay and calabrese8 repped this.
  3. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Mean Machine, thanks for the in depth breakdown of Croatia. What about Pjaca? I thought you were pretty high on him when he was at Juve. Were you upset when Juve sold him?

    Falc, if they play for Juve, they must be good :)
     
  4. Buffonfan

    Buffonfan Member

    Jun 26, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #279 Buffonfan, Sep 13, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    Asensio, love love for this guy. But I still love Italy more, lol (will always do). But Asensio sure do have great potential.

    The second goal of Spain, Asensio's goal from outside the box with his left foot was like something that you only see in video games. AMAZING!!

    Spain third goal it was also him that kick it in, it hit the pole and bounce back in, on the way got touch by Croatia's GK, perhaps that was why it count as Croatia OG? But I still see it as Asensio's goal.

    Then into the second half, he also assisted all 3 of Spain goals.

    Basically this guy effort got Spain their 5 goals against Croatia. The only goal that was not related to Asensio was the first goal only. The 5 goal all after that was rather it him kick it in or him assisted.

    Regarding Croatia, I think it just a one time fluke. It is WAY too soon to say it is the end of an area for Croatia. I refused to make any conclusion until I see Croatia subsequence matches.
    I need to at least see how their perform against England next month, and then against Spain again in November first. I don't like to make conclusion based on only ONE match. I still believe they will improve next match.

    An Mancini, I don't like him, but in all fairness, he sure does have a very hard job, I do feel for him.
    It just I hope our match coming up in October, I swear I'm going to cry if I see our opponent ran through our midfield like how our match against Portugal again.


    I love Italy, I really do, but for some reason watching our match where we lost against Portugal, vs the match where Croatia lost against Spain, I just want to cry when I watch ours. In the specific match against Portugal, imo, we perform worser than Croatia.
    At least in the first 20 minutes, Croatia got things going, attack, able to make shots. Yes, then they start falling apart.
    .......
    But look at us in our match, mann, in the begining already, Portugal ran through our midfield like we not even there. Everytime I look at the TV is Portugal ran through our side of the field and make shots. And this basically continue throughout the 'whole' match, everytime I look is Portugal ran straight through our field with ease.

    I'm just crossing my finger that we make it through Euro Cup 2020 and Qatar2022 qualifying.
     
  5. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    That midfield was not instructed in anything remotely organized. It had no direction. There was no purpose.
     
    calabrese8 repped this.
  6. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Hard to say. When he was at Juve before he got injured, he looked like a nasty guy on the pitch and I really liked seeing him play. However, after he tore his ACL he never really looked the same player again. I was kind of angry about him leaving because I felt he had potential. He never really looked good for Croatia, but at the same time, he has only played a few games for them, and I think its a little unfair to judge him for the Spain game. Pjaca did actually play well when Croatia beat Spain 2-1 in Euro 2016. At the moment I have mixed feelings about Pjaca. Not gonna judge him until I see more of him, because I feel he could be good or he might turn out to be a flop. Only time will tell.
     
  7. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Who's your favorite Croatian that isn't Mandzukic and do you know their whole story?
     
  8. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Probably Modric or Rakitic. What do you mean their whole story?

    Are you talking about Zdravko Mamic? The extremely corrupt guy that has been hated boy Croatians in general due to stealing tons of money from the country and threatening peoples lives over money? The guy that used to be the transfer director of Dinamo Zagreb and often threatened players lives if they refused to sign for his club due to money reasons? This was mainly the source of all the flares being thrown onto pitches in the past because the Croatians wanted Zdravko Mamic fined and in huge trouble.

    I do know that there has been some controversy with Modric because he was a street kid until Mamic saved him from bankruptcy and gave him a place in Dinamo Zagreb and he turned out to be one of the world's best midfielders. Whether Modric supports Mamic or not is unknown. He lied and testified for Mamic in a court, but there have been rumors that his family's lives might have been threatened which pushed Luka Modric to do that. Really don't know if he really supports Mamic or not, but if he does, I can see why.
     
  9. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After seeing multiple posts removed you'd think you guys would get the hint. Cut it out.
     
  10. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    What position does he play and would he have made the difference vs Spain? Because Croatia didn't seem to have a midfield at all in that game. Just unlucky? Bored? World Cup Hangover?
     
  11. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    italy-azzurri-fan.. what % of your family is croatian? lol
     
    Deleted User x repped this.
  12. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    He is not a player. He is just a political figure in Croatia.

    Didn't I say that the midfield was not able to exploit the whole qualities because they were stretched all over the field due to too many inexperienced players with not much quality playing? Of course the midfield will be outrun if they have to stretch so much. And Spain has a world class midfield as well: Busquets and Isco are both world class. Thiago Alcantara works really hard and is very physical. What do you expect?
     
  13. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    None. I have no Croatian routes. I have never even been to the country. No connection. I just like them because their style has always been similar to ours, and since we were not in the World Cup, I chose to support them. They have always been my second team after Gli Azzurri!!!
     
  14. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Will he coach them then?

    Yeah, didn't I say the same?

    I didn't expect them to get murdered.
     
  15. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    No.

    Well nobody expected them to get murdered like that. At first I was not following the news, so it was by surprise that they were missing so many players when they showed the starting squads before the game. When I saw that I expected Spain to win, especially after Vrsaljko went off. I did not expect a thrashing mainly because I was not sure how far Spain have come with Enrique just taking charge after the World Cup. I expected like a 3-1 victory to Spain after I saw the squads.
     
  16. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    @Mean Machine Why do you love Zdravko Mamic so much? He sounds like a thug.

    Will you be happy when he eventually becomes the NT coach?
     
  17. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    There is truth in the fact that Italy in general is in a malaise. But that is true of many European countries and yet we see better development of youth and more courage from managers to play younger players.

    I mean Italy's GDP is much larger than Spain's and their unemployment is much better. Spanish youth are struggling to find work just like Italian youth.

    So what is the difference? It comes down to youth development. Our young players spend too much time on tactics and not enough on skill work IMO. In Spain it is a culture that promotes ball control first and foremost. That permeates the youth ranks. Can't dribble? You are out.

    We have to change the footballing culture from the ground up.
     
  18. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think that's wrong nowadays. Spain's economy has outgrown Italy's because Italy's has been contracting for years.

    Of course Spain has a bigger footballing economy, despite a significantly smaller population.
     
  19. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Did I ever say I liked him? I hate him so bad.
     
  20. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #295 Calcio Pauly, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Spains GDP is significantly less, so too is their debt though. They're average wage is much lower too. Spain imports more than they export with a negative trade balance, with the reverse true about Italy. My point is that I don't think you can make a correlation with economy and footballer talent production, otherwise the reverse should be true and recently in youth competitions it is. The bottom line is that somewhere from the youth to the adult squads, players are getting neglected in some way. You don't continue to push high up in youth competitions if you can't make any talent. That's not the problem. Somewhere it's not getting used. It's a simple conclusion that seems to bypass most people.

    Yeah, I was especially surprised at how easily the Spanish midfield went around your boy Modric. It was like he wasn't even there. I'm sure he's still recovering from the world cup and treatments they were getting then. Might take some time to get back to form, if that.
     
  21. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You have to think about infrastructure too.

    In Italy I think the infrastructure for football - from stadiums to training facilities - is not as good as other major European countries. I heard an interview recently given by an English player who went to Napoli in 2015 on loan for a season and he said their training facilities were the type you would encounter in the third or fourth tier in England!

    Investment in infrastructure generally in Italy is pretty poor, the Genoa bridge collapse being another example.
     
  22. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    So why is England such utter crap in football? Surely they have the best infrastructure, no?
     
  23. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    They just reached WC semi finals and EPL had by far biggest representation of any league in latter stages of WC.

    Compare EPL record with Serie A in CL and EL this century, then you will see the difference, a difference that will inevitably grow in the years to come.

    I think it is common knowledge that Italian football is generally poorly managed.
     
  24. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Training yes, stadiums no. But shitty stadiums shouldn't be a factor in development of players and it isn't as evidence of so many foreign players being brought in, developed and sold for profit. Numbers game. That's how Serie A teams survive now. Look at Roma from last season to this one.
     
  25. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    But the weaker the league becomes because of its economic limitations the harder it will be for young Italian players to excel because the overall standard of play will not be high enough.

    The predicament of football in Italy is such that, without a revolution, it will remain in a critical situation for the forseeable future.
     

Share This Page