Nations League Italia vs Portugal and U.S. Friendly

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by toronto_soccer, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    there was a lot of lost sleep when we didn't make the world cup.... i can't speak for your cousins..but i know a lot of mine in Calabria were.

    The nations cup is a glorified friendly tournament...one that I would put on par with the confederations cup. I didn't lose sleep that we didn't make the finals. Even Mancini admitted the goal is to better ourselves for the Euros upcoming and get a system in place.
     
  2. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    The point I am trying to make is that it is hard for anyone to make the claim that the answer to our goal-scoring woes is a rotation player for Milan. Hell, we have guys in Belotti and Immobile that have starred for their respective clubs bagging a ton of goals in one of the best leagues in the world, and they have failed in this regard. Say what you will about Immobile and Belotti, but both are more accomplished players than Cutrone.

    I think it's incumbent on Cutrone to win a starting role, either at Milan or elsewhere, before he be considered for the spot. That said, I have no issue with him getting a call up and if Mancini likes what he sees, I would have no issue playing him instead of Belotti or Immobile. Hell, Lasagna is getting a chance.

    I am still convinced though that given the lack of a proven #9, you play our three most talented attackers in Insigne, Chiesa and Bernardeschi and you hope that someone can take the chances they create.
     
  3. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think that is more of a Roman thing. I know Roma fans in London who have no interest in the Azzurri at all.
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #154 falvo, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    People care to point but thhat's about it. My cousins in Calabria moshed and groaned for a little bit when Italia didn’t make the World Cup but they went right back to worrying about Sunday’s games or the european cups.

    From my experience , Milanisti, Interisti and Juventini in southern Italy feel the same way. Same goes for Napoli fans and in Florence , no one really even knew when the national team games were on. At least not when I lived there.
     
  5. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That happened to me several times in Italy. When I asked someone where I can watch la partita - a WC or EC qualifier - the reply was often, "what match?"
     
  6. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    We have to note though that interest in football generally in Italy has fallen considerably over the last 20 years, hence the paltry attendances and relatively modest value of TV rights notwithstanding all Serie A and B games being screened live.
     
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  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #157 falvo, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    The interest is still prevalent for the clubs but the national team traditionally plays maybe 5-7 games a season with maybe the exception of a WC or Euro campaign. There is also always a different group of players so it’s kind of difficult for fans to relate. It’s understandable that people care mostly about their clubs.

    I think italians abroad care more about when the national team is playing.
     
  8. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Which days of the week does it matter what team you play for, and which ones does it not matter? I think we're all in the dark here.
     
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  9. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I'm also not saying he's the answer, and we both agree on Lasagna. I just want to see him get chances similarly to other players who are also rotation for their squad but getting a look on the national team.

    It's a position with no answer at the moment and I'm getting sick of seeing brick feet miss sitters.

    We're all pretty much in agreement that finishing is key and not happening right now, with the exception of one guy who's saying it's the midfield, but he gets everything wrong anyway.

    We agree that Lasagna's can get some time with less club time and goals.

    If the "bad ass" Euro "champs" :) can play that guy who had a back seat to the back seat player we're talking about, and we just don't have a #9 that is standing out right now, let's try to find one and give him more than 2 minutes.

    I think we're all pretty convinced that it's not going to be Immobile who we rely on. I wouldn't have had a problem with a false nine lineup vs Portugal, but Mancini is definitely looking for alternate formations that involve a #9... It's time to move on from Immobile and I don't think Pasta/Fagioli or Pavoletti are it.
     
  10. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    toronto_soccer repped this.
  11. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Maybe your cousins in Italy aren't the only people in Italy? Maybe they're like you and only watch in the knock out rounds of tournaments, or like most seasonal fans of the international game? I don't think Italy is the only country where the majority of fans are club over country. I mean, for those that like to watch regularly and not just speculate based on history, it only makes sense that they have a stronger connection with players and teams they get to watch on a regular basis, kind of like you and MLS/San Jose, right?
     
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  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #162 falvo, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Or maybe they are too busy doing other things?



    Menefreghisti? Ma chi se ne frega?

    Contrary to popular belief , most relevant Italians do work.....well except for the two weeks at Easter , 25 April, 1 Maggio, June 4th , three weeks at Christmas , la Befana, 8 Marzo...

    ferragosto and the rest of August , and of course during the semifinals and finals of the Coppa Italia , champions league , etc etc etc hahaha!
     
  13. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Like talking about football in the 80' and 90's?

    You care. That's why you keep repeating the same old thing every friendly, prefaced with "I didn't watch" and "When I lived in Italy 100 years ago my cousin's told me this!"

    :p
     
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  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yeah I do but I’m in California and nothing is going on between fires. I didn’t care when I lived in Firenze. I tried but to no avail...
     
  15. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Tottifan, you're the greatest! :D
     
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  16. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Everyone sure cared when they won. It's more of an attitude that unless you're winning, we ain't gonna be fussed about it, is my perception of things. Before 06, I remember most non pundits literally thinking that the calciopoli thing was the end of the team and no one was really talking about the world cup up until we beat the snot out of Germany in their "unbeatable" stadium who, incidentally, will be dropped to B league for the next nations league. I miss hearing that we need to copy their system, btw. Where are all those guys these days?

    ...Side note... lol @Rac93 :p

    So the majority of fans are fickle. Big deal. Seems par for the course to me.
     
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  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #167 falvo, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Well of course when they won. No one cried when Ahn outjumped Maldini to eliminate Italy. Roma fans kept blaming Byron Moreno, Lazio fans were internally happy about that although they wouldn’t admit it.


    Only one who moaned was Luciano Gaucci. No one blamed him for that though...

    I do remember a stink when Inzaghi was doing Elisabetta Canalis or Vieri’s ex. Or when Pippo was with Lippi’s daughter , Stefania. Only reason Lippi’s picked Inzaghi was because Vieri was injured otherwise at that time, best friends or not, neither would play with the other.
     
  18. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You're comparing recent NT performances to the worst Italian side in living memory. Yes there are clear signs of improvement in evidence but lets not kid ourselves that this Italy is beginning to resemble a top 10 footballing nation.

    Objectively speaking Italy dominated possession against Portugal. 69% v 31%. Now you know and I know that Portugal's highly technical and talented midfield is not that inferior to Italy's. Portugal clearly made a tactical decision to sit back and absorb pressure (and maybe snatch a late one) for most of the 90m and they were comfortable in the knowledge that Italy would probably not score. In fact, when they decided to actually play for a few minutes late in the match, Donarumma was forced to make the most difficult save of the match.

    I like the addition of Barella to the team, Verratti has improved (not as much as people are saying though) and the side is developing an identity that was lacking under Ace Ventura. But are you satisfied with the quality of chances that were created over 90m of football dominance? I think you're being a bit generous with the late Insigne shot, the free headers are probably not going to come in genuine competitive fixtures. The Immobile rebound was the real lost opportunity but that's what happens when you're struggling to score goals, you fluff the rare chances you get. There's a shitload of stats available these days on matches and I could probably empirically prove that the chance possession ratio was a poor return over the 90m but I don't want to labour the point too much.

    Take away for me from that match was that Chiesa, who is selected in that team because he represents a goal threat, clearly disappointed and is not quite yet at the level that is needed for the team. Politano who is a much more versatile player would have been a better option and definitely is a guy you want supporting a number 9 for his ability to cross a ball. But i guess Mancini wanted to keep continuity going with Chiesa. Maybe play Chiesa or Immobile but not those two at the same time.
     
  19. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Suggesting if Portugal had opened up we would have scored x more goals then them is a pretty optimistic view of things.

    Only match I have been remotely encouraged was away to Poland. And considering that they played better without designated "forwards" in that match not sure how you can say that that is the main problem.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You and me both. Allo scuro di tutto…..
     
  21. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Well that's entirely the point. If they aren't winning, they aren't worth talking about to the general public fan. It's not like they're Portuguese like @D_Jota @Tertuliano and @footy14wiz who are desperate for any sort of recognition so much so that when Italy was busy winning a forth championship, it was only Portugal's forth world cup appearance. It gets even worse. They're so desperate that they used to pretend they've never won anything because they played pretty football and Italia only win by playing negative. It's even worse, they decided to try and copy Italy but go 180 degree in the opposite direction only to do it without any style and as ugly as you can be. That's what desperation smells like.

    So can you blame the common Italian for not caring until the team picks up the slack?

    At least with club football there's something to talk about every week.
     
  22. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I'm not blaming fans. I am merely stating no one cares about the national team until tournament time.
     
  23. DOctore13

    DOctore13 Member

    Jul 19, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    There doesn’t need to be a conspiracy but if Juve buys up young Italian talent (just to keep it away from rivals) and then let’s it stagnate on the bench because they have better, more expensive, more experienced players how is the young talent to ever grow?
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #174 falvo, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Juve , Inter and Milan had been doing that for years. The difference between then and now is you had depth at every position because there were more Italian players playing in the bigger squads. That won't happen today when you have 3 or 4 starting or even contracted Italian players on the top 5-6 Serie A teams.
     
  25. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    the issue is that clubs shouldn't have to choose between self-interest and national interest. Until we make it a European level playing field international football (not just in Italy will suffer)
     

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