I just wanted to start a thread on the current depth of the national team. I think many of us take it for granted how we can be missing 4 or 5 normal starters yet beat teams like Costa Rica and Panama rather easily. I remember when only like 10 years ago it seemed like we barely had a full starting 11 that could compete at the international level and we had to rely on players like Stewart and Dooley who had USA citizenship but were really Europeans just to even fill that 11. Now it seems as if we have a pool that goes 3 full teams deep. We have players as good as Twellman and Mathis who can't even get in the Nats picture anymore. What do you think has caused this? Is it the development of MLS in that time frame? Is it that soccer retains better athletes than it did 15 years ago? Is it due to more Americans playing in Europe? Is it Bruce? I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on this.
Well, of course it b/c of the development of pro soccer in the US (give the A-League some cred). But mostly what we have is a lot of solid, professional role players. We're still shallow when it comes to guys who really control the space around them -- guys who can do what Reyna and O'Brien do. Beasley controls the space around him b/c his defender knows that if he closes down, Beas can race by him. McBride is better with the ball at his feet than people give him credit for. Donovan, for all his wonderful ability, gets stripped far too often when the space closes around him. But most of our guys can't be relied upon to control the ball for longer than a couple of touches. If they don't move the ball quickly (and often they don't!) they are very susceptible to pressure. hence, you saw how choppy the last two games were -- even though we finished well and defended adequately.
I think we are building a good pool of players, when healthy we are indeed fairly deep at most positions. GK: We've been deep here for years. Even with a couple of injuries we would still be pretty good. CD: With Gooch, Boca, Pope, Gibbs, and with Spector on the horizon. I just with our left back and RB corps was deep. What happens if Cherundalo goes down? DM: We seem to have depth here w/Pablo, Kerry, and the hopeful return of JOB. Wings: Lewis and Beas are great but I don't see alot of depth here. AM: Donovan and Reyna but post-Reyna it will be Donovan and Gaven. Throw in Dempsey too? F: Right now w/McBride, Chung, Johnson, it's OK. I would like to see more from Wolff. The wild cards are Casey and Twellman.
Attacking Mid and Forwards are always a premium. Unless you're Brazil or Argentina, you can never have enough players at those spots. The U.S. is no exception. While Reyna and Donovan are excellent players, neither is a bona fide attacking midfielder. No knock on them as few are. Reyna, as most know, is a natural D-Mid. Donovan certainly has the skills and attacking mentality to play there, but is more comfortable taking on players than sharing the ball. Hence, I think he's better as a withdrawn forward. As for Forwards, Johnson clearly possesses the skill and athleticism to excell. It's just a matter of time. McBride is solid when healthy and when playing as the point man - having guys like Donovan making runs off the ball. From what I've seen of him playing alongside Johnson, I don't think he's quite as comfortable. In a nutshell, we either need to develop a bona fide attacking mid to allow Donovan to play upfront opposite Johnson (w/ McBride coming off the bench) or try our luck w/ a 3-5-2 and hope the Reyna/Donovan combo can create enough offense for Johnson/McBride.
Bradenton is the best thing ever to happen to our development system. When you see all the players who went through there, it really makes an impression. In another 10 years, I think our depth will make today's pale by comparison and it will be in large part due to Bradenton. Also, having a top flight pro league around helps. It's not crucial (since guys like Keller and Reyna never played in MLS) but it is very beneficial. For example, where would Eddie Lewis be if it weren't for MLS? He sure as hell wouldn't be on the national team.
Bradenton has done its fair share of development and should be recognized. However, more of these type of facilities should pop up all across the country. We can't rely solely of this academy because as the youth and popularity of soccer grows it won't be able to hold and find all the talent available. That's why the MLS reserve league needs to really take off in the next year. MLS has done wonders for the depth and its amazing now that just because you are an elite MLS player that doesn't guarantee you a spot on the national team on a regular basis. That couldn't be said even 3 years ago. We've come a long way in 10 years and it will only get better in terms of depth.
We are getting to the point where there is pretty good competition at every position... This makes a coach's choices more important, because in the past it was pretty obvious who could play and who couldn't. For example, there was a long period of time when Waldo was BY FAR our best scorer. It is much harder today to say who is best, and deserves to play. We also have a good mix of veterans and young guys, not just one squad from the same era. That got us into trouble in 1998, where all the old guys were counting on Reyna to do everything. I would have to say that Arena has done a pretty good job finding the best players for the moment, though LB continues to be a big problem. He has certainly brought a lot of players in to camp. I think he learned a lot from qualifying last time around, where he brought "new" guys in like Donovan, Beasley and Mathis, and they made a big difference in a few key games, and ultimately the WC. He knows he can't just go into away games playing to tie, because we got into a lot of trouble in 2001, and we have the ability to win every game now. The team seems much more versatile at this point than they were four years ago, and that is because there is a lot more talent.
I would vote for a combination of the 3. We can't dismiss the ever growing number of youths who are picking up the sport. The US is basically playing a numbers game and we have the numbers. We really can tell the difference in depth during the Hexagonal campaign. Last round, the idea of letting Reyna take a break would have absolutely killed us.
Sarge: I'm a huge Reyna fan, but the reality was different than the 'idea'. We did very well in the games in which Claudio wasn't avaible, didn't we? After he went down in Columbus v. Mexico, we scored twice. then went undefeated the rest of the first half of the Hex. -B
passtheblitz: LB, and to an extent RB, will be a problem for the forseeable future. MLS will not produce many good outside backs. If you're a great player in MLS, you're not going to be playing outside back, you'll be at midfield, or in central defense. Outside back is where you'll see role players get time in MLS. On the Nats, Bruce has used YA's (Regis, Cherundolo, Vanney, Boca), and converted midfielders (Heyduk, Sanneh, Convey). Mullan is listed as an "M/D" on the US pool roster. Wasn't Albright a forward at one time? He's listed as a "D/M" imho, this is one area where US depth isn't the best -- and Bruce has to use some imagination.
The biggest contibutor to player development was MLS, by far. It doesn't matter if you have a Bradenton if there's no place for them to play except college. No country has ever developed as a soccer power without a strong national league. Ask the Australians, who seem to have done a clone-job on MLS for their new league. Obviously, the player pool is continuing to expand and in another 10 years, the quality of the USMNT is going to be downright scarey. I like this quote fom Landon Donovan: "I am almost overwhelmed by the quantity of good, young American players right now. Even better than that, there are hundreds and hundreds of 12, 13, 14 year olds who will probably be better than we are."
one young guy who I think to keep an eye on for the LB spot in the future is Tim Ward of the metrostars. He's only 18 but he has looked damn comfortable and been very impressive back there this year. He gets up the flank and makes some very nice crosses. Good speed too.
i agree that things seems reasonably deep if you think about fielding two healthy teams (and recognize that many players could switch to different positions as necessary): --------------keller-------------- --'dolo---gooch--gibbs---boca'--- -------------mastro------------- --beasley----------------lewis--- ------------donovan------------- --------johnson--mcbride-------- OR -------------#2goalie------------ --hejduk--marshall--pope---job--- ---------------reyna------------- ---ralston---------------noonan-- --------------dempsey----------- -----------wolff----chung-------- this doesn't include many of the younger guys, like spector and gaven, who there is reason to be optimistic about for wc06, and has guys like zavagnin, casey, and twellman on the outside looking in. and without even getting into others who may play soon, this doesn't include players like convey, vanney, albright, and berhalter who have played in recent games. there are some spots where the drop off is greater than others, and some positions that may generally be weaker than others, but the depth is certainly far greater than it has been in the past. i think most of the reasons for "credit" have been identified. youth programs, development programs, pro soccer in the US, yanks abroad, etc. and, give some credit to these guys for making the commitment and putting in the necessary hours (which in turn is probably attributable to different degrees to the heros of yesteryear). it's a process. things have improved mightily if you think about where we were 16 years ago (or even 4 years ago). and should continue to improve in the future.
see, people say this but I don't think so. After Keller what do we have? Howard? Shaky and a second-teamer. Do we want a keeper who isn't sharp from first-team experience? Hahneman? Good keeper ... but almost no international experience. For all we know, he could be the Jason Kries of goalkeepers -- good league player, but that's it. Then we have a bunch of MLS players who have little to no international experience. Don't tell me anybody but Kasey Keller could've made those saves these last two games .... certainly not Jon Busch, Kevin Hartmann or Joe Cannon. i think our goalkeeper depth is a Big Soccer myth.
I think it's pretty obvious what is happening here. I'm 28 and have been playing soccer my whole life, but when my parents were kids, soccer wasn't even available to them at a youth level. At least where I grew up (suburban Massachusetts) the youth programs started popping up to some degree in the 70's, but only really caught on in the 80's. The players peaking now are of the first generation where youth soccer was a viable alternative to pop warner football. More people put more time into the sport as kids, and the country is beginning to reap the dividends.
Reyna's not a D-Mid, certainly not for the US. The last time he played there for us - in Panama during the last round of qualifying, he was terrible. He has usually played a central midfield role for the US, with a D-Mid behind him. Donovan is much more comfortable sharing the ball than taking on players. He's shown this time & time again, including something like 8 assists in the hex alone (of course, some of those were corner kicks, not exactly sharing the ball). He's constantly criticized for not taking on players 1v1. I do agree with you that neither is a clear-cut a-mid, but Donovan is getting there. A-mid, withdrawn forward - I'm not sure what the difference is, to be honest.
I think you're missing the point. Few people claim that we have many (or any) goalies as good as Keller right now. But the point is that if Keller did go down, we would be ok. To knock Hahnemann or any of the MLS keepers because they don't have international experience is silly. It's hard to have a decade with two keepers as good as Freidal and Keller, and still expect to have back-ups with tons of international experience. In spite of that, Howard has 12 caps, Thornton 8, Hahnemann 4, Walker 3, Rimando 3, Cannon 2. And if you're worried about experience, I think you're selling Howard a bit short, because he did win the F.A. cup. Also, although Adin Brown is out of sight and out of mind, I see no reason why he couldn't fill in too. His run to MLS Cup 2002 was impressive, and I believe he's been starting in Norway since he left New England.
i think you're missing the point. I don't expect them to be as good as keller .... that's silly. but I don't think we'd be 'just fine' with anybody you mentioned. Imagine the collective hand-wringing that would be going on here if Kevin Hartman started against Mexico. that's my point .... I don't trust the other keepers. by the way, you bring up a great point about keller-friedel having dominated the last decade and so it's hard to have another keeper with experience. If Keller gets hurt, that could come back to haunt us.
Well, I didn't mention Hartman, so I'm not sure why you picked him. But if you really don't think that either Howard, Cannon, Brown, or Hahnemann could fill in for the rest of qualifying then I guess we just have a difference of opinion.
Reis. I love Keller. And, actually, maybe Reis doesn't make one of those saves - but the guy's good in any league.
A-mid is comfortable with the ball in a static situation. Ramos was an A-mid. An a-mid can hold the ball look around and create something. Valderrama was an a-mid. From what I've seen, Landon doesn't do that. He's fantastic on the run, going to goal & he uses his speed well to get himself in goal scoring position (2 of his last 3 goals w/ the nats) and dishes fairly well on the run - but when we're not running at the other team, Donovan is not really a creator. Donovan is a withdrawn forward. Here's 5 guys that were/are hybrids but were more creators than LD: Baggio, Cantona, Blanco, Litmanen (sp?), Bergkamp. I really like Donovan, but he's not truly an a-mid.
No one has mentioned BigSoccer as a possible reason for the increase in depth. Without our collective insightful analysis, Bruce would still be playing Richie Williams.