Only BigSoccer posters would think so. Here's how Garber's press conference would go. "We did have discussions with the Cosmos ownership group about joining MLS, but they weren't interested. They wanted to play against our teams, but they didn't want to join our league. We have built a competitive, exciting, financially stable league based on a sound business plan. To completely restructure our business to something that suits the New York Cosmos at the expense of our existing clubs across the country would mean ignoring the lessons of the bad old days of American soccer." Much more likely, if the Cosmos owners ever got in sniffing distance of MLS, they would join up in a heartbeat. Unless they value abstract business structures more than money, in which case I'd suspect they were actually Ted Westerveldt in a Mission Impossible-style flesh mask. First: there are no "D1 club standards." The USSF has sanctioned MLS as the D1 league; there are no separate standards for D1 clubs. Second: There wouldn't be a controversy, exactly because what you're describing would be, as you yourself point out, "a completely stupid business decision." So you're saying, these hypothetical NASL teams would say "Hey, we're losing tons of money--and we won't come lose tons of money with you unless you agree to lose tons of money, too!" Turning that down isn't controversial; it's common sense.
There are plenty of soccer owners in this world who are perfectly happy to make their money in business and lose money on their soccer team. That's "modern football." Your suggestion that owners will always make the smart business decision flies in face of owner behavior worldwide. The world doesn't work that way. I'm suggesting that FIFA and CONCACAF will take a dim view should MLS bar a club from the top flight for refusing to sell. That's where controversy will arise sooner or later. Is selling the controlling interest in your team going to be a requirement for access to division one? FIFA and CONCACAF are just going to allow that to happen? You may call it stupid for an owner to reject single-entity but in the long sweep of time someone will eventually say, "I want to get into the top flight and still own my team all by myself with no partners." It's not a question of if this will happen but when. Are FIFA and CONCACAF going to operate a division where a club cannot get in under any circumstances and still keep full control of what they own? I don't think they'd allow it. I think the future of MLS's sanctioning would be called into question if they ever rejected a team for refusing to sell out.
Why on earth do you think they would care? When was the last time FIFA had something to say about any league's franchise agreements or league entry requirements? Yes, at least for the foreseeable future. That's how MLS is structured; that's how they were structured when they got USSF sanctioning in 1994; that's how they've been structured every year since. If the USSF has a problem with it, they've had quite a few years to speak up. And if the USSF doesn't have a problem with it, how are CONCACAF and FIFA relevant? Is the FMF going to act as the white knight for the New York Cosmos in their battle against the USSF? Is CONCACAF going to pass a rule against single-entity leagues just to piss off the United States? That's assuming this unlikely scenario ever happened, of course. In fact, of course, while a few posters on BigSoccer don't like the single entity system, the people who actually invest in MLS and operate the teams do. Teams have been lining up to "sell a controlling interest in their teams" and I still don't understand why you think the Cosmos owners would be any different.
The NASL commissioner is stirring this pot publicly. I think it's safe to assume he has more than one team backing his behavior.
The Cosmos have publicly said they have top flight aspirations and have no intention of selling their brand rights. I'm not the one making up this angle. I can dig up the quotes if you like. Plenty of people around here have called them crazy for being this way. That doesn't make their challenge any less serious. It could all be just a ploy that comes to nothing but for now they are pushing it publicly. If they stick to their guns then the issue will eventually have to be addressed. No one had pushed the issue previously. Now someone is. USSF never had to deal with it before because back then it was only a theoretical possibility. You're forgetting that Canada also has something to say about how MLS and NASL will operate. We're talking about a situation which will set a precedent. Multiple federations involved makes it a CONCACAF concern by default. How much higher the concerns might go will depend on how it's handled.
What pot is he stirring? He has only been on the job for a few months. And his interviews have been generic cheerleading with no substance. I laughed when he called the Cosmos plan "genius." Unlike Downs, he is just clueless about everything right now. No it is not. You really do like to assume. You might be the only person on earth who takes anything the Cosmos say seriously. Let us check a few facts. MLS is not changing anything about single-entity. If you don't play by MLS's rules, you don't get it in. Ask Joey Saputo. The NASL doesn't have the money to compete with anything and would quickly meet their demise if they tried to go against MLS. Hell, they just likely lost one of their most respected teams. Let's see if they can make it as D2 first, okay? Anything beyond that is typical bigsoccer poster nonsense.
Which doesn't mean they wouldn't enter MLS as a single entity. I've heard the Cosmos say that they want to be the ones running the team; that they don't want to sell the trademarks to another investment group, which many people assumed was their endgame. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be willing to join MLS under the current MLS rules. If they said anything like that explicitly, I missed it. What do you think Canada's leverage is, exactly? Threaten to force MLS to close Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver? That's like burning down your own house hoping the smoke will make your neighbor cough. Nobody is going to step in and tell US Soccer how to run their domestic league's finances. Not now, and not because the hypothetical 2020 NASL Champion Cosmos whine about it. If the Cosmos want to join MLS, they will join MLS. If they don't, they won't. That's not a controversy; it's just business.
This quote says it all. http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/st...sl-new-york-cosmos-ready-launch-roger-bennett That's a complete rejection of single-entity in one sentence. They can't do any of those three things under the MLS system. You can say they won't stick by that position but they haven't backed off it yet. The division sanctioning they grant. This is not merely about the Cosmos. The issue will set precedent for any club who might aspire to the top flight in the US or Canada. It's about how the whole division system operates when teams seek to move up.
So after it became clear--for practical reasons--that they were going to play in the NASL and not MLS, they said some nice things about the NASL. Of course they haven't backed off it "yet," because they haven't had a realistic shot at joining MLS "yet." Go back and listen to everything Joey Saputo said about MLS...before he got his deal done. No, seriously, though. Canada's only threat is to not sanction MLS anymore. Meaning Canada would lose its only three top division pro teams and have to start rebuilding their soccer culture basically from scratch. In other words: no realistic leverage, and no reason to cut their nose off to spite their face.
If only the Cosmos can do this (and the only team publicly doing anything remotely close to this magnitude), the point stands.
I'm going to have to start putting people on ignore that respond the the obvious trolling ignorance of the people I already have on ignore.
I expect some to follow Saputo's example, however your suggestion that no one would EVER take a different approach is not realistic. The commissioner is making public comments which are at odds with an embrace of single-entity. That implies that he has the backing of his league's clubs. You can say don't believe any of it but don't pretend it can NEVER happen. The notion that every aspiring club will embrace single-entity without exception forever and ever is a fantasy. MLS can be sanctioned at some level other than division one. Peterson's comments suggest that this may be NASL's goal. You're not considering all the angles here.
Peterson's comments imply that NASL might want to displace MLS as the division one league. Setting aside for the moment the craziness of the idea, he never would've said it publicly if he didn't have his member clubs behind him. I think a lot of people are overlooking the possibility that quite a few NASL clubs may be prepared to demand division one opportunities on terms not dictated solely by MLS. San Antonio and Ottawa may soon have stadiums of a division one standard and others will also in time. The Cosmos' ploy is not happening in a vacuum. It will set a precedent for the future of all second division clubs. They all have a stake in what happens here.
Doesn't San Antonio have plans to campaign to get into MLS? That's why the 4th phase of their stadium expansion plans is in the 20k seat range. Even though nether have said anything I have a feeling either Ottawa or Edmonton will try to campaign for MLS as well at some point in the future.
That may all be true. My point was that Commissioner Peterson wouldn't be making provocative comments about displacing MLS if that sort of talk was against the wishes of his own member clubs. The big picture questions raised by the Cosmos will have a direct impact on the futures of everyone in NASL. The fact that their commissioner is out front talking about the status of the entire division is a signal that the league members see this as more than just a Cosmos issue. It'll be very interesting to see what they have to say publicly as the drama unfolds. It's about all of them.
Personally I don't think the Cosmos alone will make a big enough impact. All the owners in the league would have to work together if they truely want to take on MLS (which for the record I think is a stupid move). I don't think all the owners would be fully committed to that plan as some of them aspirations to get into MLS one day and the might not want to burn any bridges.
It's fascinating that we all talk about MLS as if it's the end game for any club with more than 4k fans. Sports team owners have a wide variety of aspirations and attitudes, amongst which are often an entrepreneurial spirit that, for at least a sizeable minority of them, may preclude them from the desire to join a league where they have little actual ownership of their specific franchise, player contracts, or business managerial style. "competing with mls" aside, there's a lot of opportunity in this country for soccer outside of that league. Consider a non-insider perspective about soccer for a moment. Take off your nerd lens (and don't get me wrong, I've got one too) and I think we can all on some level appreciate that the MLS is struggling still to find television slots, much less relevancy outside of their immediate local team markets. I'm not saying that the NASL, or any lower league, could do better—but treating MLS as if it's beyond reproach, or even minor competition, is a bit absurd. It also flies in the face of countless sports leagues in North America's history. Competitive products and subsequent mergers thereof are pretty common in the sporting past of our continent. To suggest that we've somehow left that behind seems short sighted. Again, I'm not saying that's what I think is going to happen, but staring at the soccer tea leaves like they're telling you solid info just seems a waste of time. Get big picture, friends. Everything takes investment. Clearly the NASL is seeing new owners with larger resources than prior ones. You can arbitrarily decide that all that investment is solely for MLS, but in a league with the level of ownership control that the NASL has... I'd be willing to wager they've addressed the risk of hemorrhaging teams to promotion (or collapse). Who knows. But Bill Peterson and the NASL is not building a league model that intends to lose it's successful teams every season. No one, no one. Is that stupid.
Uh....YEAH they will allow it. You obviously don't understand how FIFA and CONCACAF work. They are all about the money. Getting paid. MLS fills those greedy pockets far more than the ersatz Cosmos. And forget protecting the Fauxmos' brand and media rights. They will be worth jack squat if they aren't in MLS.
But MLS is the end game. And it has been for the past 18 years. You don't think we haven't been down this road before? Read this from 2009. http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/u...francisco-marcos-more-freedom-in-usl-than-mls The USL gave clubs more freedom, let them have control, and had the better model according to them. And what happened? USL teams still bolted to MLS. And now the USL is doing business with MLS. Please give me the name of the clubs who have spurned MLS and are now enjoying great success in D2 and D3? I'll wait. Really? Well, that hasn't been the case for our history. You realize how many teams have folded, leagues come and gone? You are still swimming against the tide by starting a soccer club or leagur in North America. MLS actually went against the odds by surviving. Think of all the hard work and money MLS had to expend to even reach this level. Just to get a minor national presence. Something the NASL, which doesn't even have a regional presence, can only dream of. As for television? MLS's problem is the same one all of American soccer faces. Including the NASL or any other minor league. There is simply tons of soccer on television now. It is so easy now to follow the EPL, Liga MX, Serie A. Champions League, etc. Fan can simply watch better soccer on tv and will flock to the best clubs. There are a good number of soccer fans walking around Tampa, Atlanta, South Florida, Edmonton, Minneapolis, ect, who don't even know or care they have a local NASL club. Actually it is beyond reproach in this country as far as domestic soccer goes. MLS's competition is foreign soccer, college sports, and the other major leagues. Certainly not the NASL or any other domestic league. Tell me a bunch of billionaires and millionaires are going to get together, form a new league to rival MLS, move into MLS markets, are prepared to lose huge chunks of money, pay to get on television, ect. Then I will believe MLS has competition. Until that happens, yes, it is absurd. Have you been paying attention at all to recent history? There hasn't been any real challenge to one of our major sports leagues since the 70s with the NHL/WHA. Do the names of the USFL, UFL, and XFL escape you? I bet they all have the resovle of Joey Saputo. You know Joey Saputo? One of architects of the USL club breakaway and founders of the NASL. He once bad mouthed MLS and thought $40 mil was way too high to pay for an expansion fee. He said he was already in the better league in the USL-1 and the Impact would stay there. About two years later, Mr. Saputo put his tail between his legs, paid the $40 mill, and ran out of his new NASL. You can think what you want, but history says otherwise. See Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland. Nobody wants to hang around the minors if they can help it. You should go back in a time machine and write the same thing about the USL-1. They certainly weren't going to build a league model that intended to lose Seattle, Vancouver, Montreal(left when they were in the NASL), and Portland. Guess what? They all left. And it will happen again. It has nothing to do with stupidity and everything to do with money.
Where on earth does he say that? Please show me where he says they are going to challenge MLS for D1 status? All I see is pom-pom waving about how they want to be the best league possible. Which is the nonsense all commissioners say. He would be a complete idiot to say what you are implying. Because Don Garber, who works for the MLS owners, would be in his right to declare open war on the NASL and stomp it like a bug, if that were the case. Peterson would be quickly looking for another job. Making sure to keep "NASL Commissioner" off his resume. You are worse than WSW in your day dreaming. BTW, bad examples since both San Antonio and Ottawa have MLS goals.
I was about to ask the same question, since I haven't read any such statements from Peterson either. I guess we're not sharp enough to read between the lines for the hidden subliminal messages . Have you noticed that he keeps intensifying his statements with every post like he's trying to talk himself into it? It's not even a merger attempt with MLS now, the NASL is going to challenge them for D1 status and displace them! The stated ambitions of San Antonio and Ottawa are probably just swerves as part of the evil master plan .
It's implied in the Philly Soccer News interview I linked above. Saying the second division designation "doesn't limit us." Speculating about filling stadiums of 60K. Saying "I understand why we are called second division now" and that he "understands" why it's "traditional" for NASL to be called division two, as if there's some other way to consider it. In any other sports context that would be such a mundane subject it would never even merit a comment from a commissioner unless he has an agenda for bringing it up. No one else is bringing it up. Then stating a second time, for good measure, that being division two "doesn't limit us." That's an awful lot of veiled hints for just a few sentences, especially given what the Cosmos are saying. This doesn't happen by accident. I took it a step further and said it might be seen as a challenge to MLS itself. It can certainly be inferred from the openly provocative nature of the comments and that's the point. He's saying things that invite spin. You can call it a wrong interpretation but there's no way these are innocent and tame observations he's making. It lines up a bit too nicely with the talk coming from Seamus O'Brien. When a commissioner blows that kind of smoke to the press in his first weeks on the job it's significant. More than a few soccer beat writers have made observations of NASL's new aggressive posturing. This is how the pot gets stirred. A brand new commissioner does not do this kind of thing unless he has the support of his owners. I will agree with anyone that it could all be just talk but this is what that talk is hinting. A public relations game is being played here.