NASL 2017 News Thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by Sandon Mibut, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1701 USRufnex, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Two subjects were forbidden to be discussed about the NASL at the NPSL's annual meeting a couple of years ago (or maybe it was three years ago?)... "Pro/Rel" and "The Lawsuit"

    So, the Cosmos and their shill commissioner never really had any interest in Pro/Rel other than to try to use it as a vehicle to one day merge with MLS.
     
  2. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    But, between Crowley, Wilt, and Silva, I think a real fight needs to happen ASAP before MLS and USL become defacto monopolies and all lower div clubs are sentenced to a minor league farm club existence...
     
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oddly, no one censored those last two takes.
     
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  4. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1704 USRufnex, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    I've been banned from posting on the Soccer in the USA subforum for months now... in my book, that qualifies as censorship. Go figure, smartypants.

    I bet I won't even be able to view this post if I include a link from the Soccer in the USA subforum... let's find out... https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/th...oga-pro-rel-meet-n-greet-superthread.2026815/

    EDIT: Huzzah! I can read still read my post but if I click on the link above (from a thread I started) it says:

    BigSoccer Forum - Error
    You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.
     
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    MLS and USL are already the defacto monopolies but I don't see how that is much of an argument. If the MLS uses their savvy lawyers in court against the same old USFL argument the NFL used as a precedent, all the NASL will win is $3.00.
     
  6. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    The interesting part of all this is that the lawsuit isn't asking for monetary damages.
     
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Well in a roundabout I believe it is. I doubt either Rocco or Silva want to pay $150 million dollar expansion fees to get into MLS. What it looks like to me, they are using this pro/rel excuse to get around paying the expansion fee. The Cosmos initially balked at paying the MLS expansion fee and that is one of the reasons on why they went their own route.
     
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  8. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's often forgotten by the pro/rel fanatics is that the pro/rel system benefits primarily those with the biggest coffers.

    You're never afraid of relegation if you can buy your way to success. But, because MLS is this Communist plot against America, that's the preferred way of doing things. Let the rich get everything, including championships.
     
  9. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1709 USRufnex, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Nice strawman there, sporty.

    Indy, Cincy, and Louisville all want to join Columbus in MLS. This is why they've put in so much money and want to build stadia to insure their success. In a closed system, only one of these three gets a golden ticket... maybe two if Columbus relocates to Cincy,

    What bigsoccer's condescendingly anti-Pro/Rel MLS apologists consistently forget is that single entity MLS "benefits primarily those with the biggest coffers" by forcing them to pay an artificially inflated membership fee for what is essentially a lifetime country club membership that only gains real value by making sure anything below it (USL/NASL) is worth only a small fraction of MLS's value.

    It wasn't all that long ago when San Jose and KC were playing in substandard venues. The most compelling part of the lawsuit, IMHO is the contention that USSF keeps moving the D1 goalposts based on MLS's recent success without regards to how MLS got there in the first place and how long it took.

    I really hope the NASL continues to survive in a more humbled state by joining forces with Peter Wilt's NISL in a long term plan for success that involves clubs acting like actual clubs embracing the substance of what makes Pro/Rel leagues so exciting to follow, rather than a single business entity with a buncha european mimicking names (FC Dallas, Sporting KC, Real Salt Lake, etc etc etc)
     
  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Or for that matter, the Minnesota , DC and Atlanta United triangle.
     
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  11. Azabache

    Azabache Member

    Nov 22, 1998
    Essex Co.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The people that built and sustained that league put considerable amount of money down to get it to where it is. If you want to join that club, then pay the dues. It's their investment, their money.

    I don't know about you, but I like standards to evolve to keep up with or outpace the standard bearers. otherwise, there's no reason to have standards at all.

    There's always a ton of Euro leagues to follow on TV. No reason for you to bother with MLS it its existence bothers you so much.
     
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  12. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1712 USRufnex, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    I have a problem when the initial investment moves on to the point where it starts to resemble a pyramid scheme.

    Baseline standards are necessary... but MLS trying to leverage FC Cincy into building a soccer stadium in an undisclosed location on the public dime rather than allow them to continue to use Nippert Stadium as their potential MLS home is unfair, unwise, and unnecessary in my estimation.

    A COUPLE OF TIMELY TWEETS FROM MY TWITTER FEED POSTED EARLIER THIS MORNING:



     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well let us know when owners start filling garages with MLS franchises then try selling them on to their friends and family.
     
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  14. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    He truly is something else.

    I'm pretty sure a brick wall would be more astute and open minded.

    I always say at this point that you hope the individual is a troll....because if he isn't the alternative is so damn sad.

    It really is.
     
  15. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Definition of pyramid scheme
    :a usually illegal operation in which participants pay to join and profit mainly from payments made by subsequent participants

    Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or can I mark you down as just another doggedly closed minded defender of the status quo like Zoidburg? The worst future I can imagine for American soccer is when an entrenched MLS claims, "this is the way it's always been done."
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most MLS teams turn a profit, their owners definitely do, especially the ones that operate their own stadiums... MLS is more akin to a franchise model you have with chain restaraunts. An investor buys the rights to a certain territory and then opens a franchise in that territory..
     
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  17. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Prove that owners are profiting mainly from expansion fees?

    I mean seriously? You haven't given up on this crap yet? Is Toronto FC getting most of its revenue from expansion fees?
     
  18. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Stadium naming rights, shirts rights, local and national ad deals, TV deals, local, national and international, merchandise, ticket revenue....yup....ponzi scheme.

    Rufnex, tell me exactly what a Ponzi Scheme is.....I think that is the issue. Many who claim Ponzi Scheme, when pressed, show they teally don’t even know what one is.

    Unless you belive all of the rev sources are made up, and the stadiums that have been built are mirages.
     
  19. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1719 USRufnex, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    For years, I'd wanted MLS to take a longer "pause" at 20 teams and eventually expand to no more than 24 teams.

    Why?

    Because it would prove the critics wrong... that MLS has a business model that doesn't have to rely on harvesting tens of millions (now hundreds of millions) of dollars in expansion fees in order to be successful.

    And because IMO it would allow for a stronger and far more robust 2nd division to continue to develop. Instead, Garber and MLS decided to expand to 28 teams... and if you believe them when they say they'll be done when they get to lucky number 28, I've got a bridge to sell ya... I'm not the only one who's looked at this increase in fees and the resulting shitshow for the "12 finalists" to belly up to the bar and pony up more public money to build Garber another stadium in yet another awkward location to fit in nicely with Bridgeview, Commerce City and Frisco...

    If MLS Is a Ponzi Scheme, Taxpayers Will Get Left Holding The Bag http://reason.com/blog/2017/08/13/if-mls-is-a-ponzi-scheme-taxpayers-will
    It's oddly annoying that bigsoccer's MLS apologists (who these days seem to double as NASL haters) hammer away at one single aspect of a post (saying I don't like what I see "when the initial investment moves on to the point where it starts to resemble a pyramid scheme") when there's other valid points in the very same post that are completely ignored...

    Also, excuse me if I decide my time is better spent listening to others who are actually experts in their chosen fields over a handful of self righteous MLS-uber-alles pretend experts on bigsoccer.

    Rather than dismissively attacking my intellect by insisting I don't know what a pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme is, why don't you address the remainder of my post? Is it because it's easier for you to dismiss, belittle and marginalize than it is to admit I might actually be at least partially right? I think it is.

    And it certainly isn't the first time I've suggested that forcing cities to build an MLS stadium before being allowed to enter the league is a BAD IDEA...https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/th...oga-pro-rel-meet-n-greet-superthread.2026815/

    Meanwhile, back to the NASL... I wish them luck but they can't just go it alone... they have to have closer and better relations with the new NISA and the-poised-to-split-into-more-than-one-division NPSL... they need to build some bridges while allowing other leagues to build bridges to them... especially when I see Peter Wilt retweet Silva's latest...

    916996753253117952 is not a valid tweet id

    916996902977236992 is not a valid tweet id
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You need a better dictionary.
     
  21. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Not a fan of Merriam-Webster?
     
  22. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    There is pro/rel in Western Europe and then there is pro/rel in Eastern Europe, South America, and Mexico.

    They are completely different and as much as people hope for the former, we would be more likely to have the latter.
     
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  23. Cirris

    Cirris Member+

    Feb 25, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Even if US suddenly implemented Pro/Rel tomorrow. Nothing will change. LA Galaxy or Sounders will NEVER be a bigger club than Real Madrid, Man U, Barca.

    And here's my three arguments why.

    History and reputation..... Do you think Jokerit, or SKA will ever be as big as Montreal Canadians, Toronto Maple Leafs, Detroit Red Wing or Boston Bruins in the hockey world? It's laughable considering the history of the NHL compared to the KHL which has faced similar struggles as MLS.

    Centralized culture center of the sport...... Is in Europe, not in the US or North America. Yes there's plenty of rabidness in South and Central America. But even then everyone turns their eyes to Europe as the hub of premiere games. Barca vs Real Madrid games are considered week long spectacles that almost rival the Super Bowl. When the top Euro powers play against each other it generates global appeal....

    Which brings me to my final point....

    Lack of seriously taken global competitions. The premiere club title match is not the Club World Cup final, a laughably under-reported competition that was supposed to define the "best club in the world". Everyone knows the EUFA CL finals is the biggest event in club sports. How can an MLS club even garner worldwide recognition if it can't even play in the biggest club league competitions in the world against teams like Real Madrid, Barca, etc.? At best MLS gets mid season friendlies that no one takes seriously and regularly get trounced in while playing reserve players.


    One final point. It's more important to worry about domestic viewership and building up franchises in mid-sized cities. MLS doesn't have time to worry about being big like La Liga, which is such a laughably top heavy league, any club outside of RM, Barca, Athletico has a slim odds of winning the title. MLS's current goals aren't even about global recognition. They're about getting their product on the local news casts and tickers of your regional sports networks. MLS needs the US domestic model simply to build up sports respectability in major US markets.
     
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  24. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    It's not the definition that's the problem. It's your reading comprehension.

    MLS isn't a scheme where investors profit on the backs of new investors.

    Expansion fees aren't payoffs, they're dilution of shares.

    When Sacramento Republic's owners pay $150 million, they're not providing a $7 million windfall to each of the existing 23 clubs. They're spending $150 million to buy 1/24th of MLS, LLC and SUM, LLC - Thereby reducing the percentage of ownership by the existing owners.

    If I buy half a pizza with a friend and four more people show up and everyone wants a slice, the money the other four people hand to me and my friend doesn't make the pizza a Ponzi scheme. They're reimbursing us for diluting our share of the pizza.
     
  25. Azabache

    Azabache Member

    Nov 22, 1998
    Essex Co.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This should put the Ponzi scheme discussions to sleep. But sadly, it won’t.
     
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