My view of the A-League in the near future

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by panicfc, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Just how are they going to play for 7-8 months of the year? They keep cutting back the season and shortening the playoffs for the simple reason that when September hits, interest in soccer dries up in most cities in the A-League. You can't start the season earlier as some players are still playing indoors, or overseas (not to mention the climate in many cities) and since nobody wants to watch soccer after September (with their minds starting to focus on the NFL, baseball playoffs, the upcoming NHL and NBA seasons, school, work and whatever else it is that makes attendance drop) where do we find these extra months to play?

    Also since the players aren't getting yearly salaries but monthly ones, where do the teams find the money to pay the players the extra 3 months salary?
     
  2. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know we can't have that right now at this moment, but it isn't too far off. Steady growth. ;)

    MLS goes from April until November. A few more years of this, and they will help establish the expectations of what a soccer season is. This is one example of how the two leagues are synergistic as they are both growing the overall soccer culture. As we move forward, I think the beginning of the NFL and NHL seasons will not negatively affect the tail-end of our soccer season too much. For a lot of people who weren't around during the NASL, live soccer was a novelty compared to the big sports, but that feeling is wearing off.

    I wonder how much the presence of the weaker A-League teams necessitates these cutbacks. Everyone benefits in terms of savings, but maybe some of the bigger teams are being held back.

    This is pure speculation, or even more of an open question. If the schedule was spread out more, without so many home games played together, maybe the crowds at each game would be higher? If there are games on Wednesday and Saturday, or on Friday and Sunday, don't you think some fans decide to only attend one of these games? As a season-ticket holder, this happened to be a few times. It is possible that a spread out schedule results in higher gate revenue, but who knows if this potential added revenue would cover the additional salary costs.

    Fun. :)

    - Paul
     
  3. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    I don't quite understand the NASL quote. I was around then, NASL certainly wans't a novelty here, but then again I'm in Vancouver, the Whitecaps were the number one team her for a while back in those days. As for the A-League growing soccer culture, I don't see it. I see most teams with silly gimmicks, marketing the game as a childrens sport, not as a sport for adults. It's not being treated as a real sport in many markets which is why we have people complaining that $15 is too much for a ticket.

    You can't compare the MLS season to the A-League and say the A-League can emulate it. The MLS is mostly owned by a couple of billionaires willing to lose a lot of money, the A-League isn't. MLS contracts are for the whole season. Like I said, in the A-League the players are on monthly contracts. Once the season is over, the players are free to play elsewhere. This cuts costs down for the A-League teams. I ask again, where are the A-League teams going to get the money to pay for these extra 3-4 months salary.

    If you think there will be a time when the beginning of the NHL, and NFL season won't have a negative effect on soccer crowds, well I disagree. Even if you are correct, I don't think that many A-League markets have climates that fans will like attending games in October and November.
     
  4. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you are 100% right on this. We can't arbitrarily increase the length of the season.

    Looking back at those attendances, only 6 or 7 teams averaged more than 4,000. So what about the burdens you have on the other 9 teams to travel even more they are are currently?

    There has been this recurring phrase "bring these other teams up" - how is this going to be done? Is the league going to help them? Will Rochester donate money to Richmond? How are we going to prop them up?

    In order to make them profitable, we need cut their costs at first. The biggest expenses for teams are team salaries, hopefully front office salaries, and then travel costs.

    Well the players don't make much, the front offices are usually bare, so that leaves travel costs.

    What would be nice is when a new franchise enters the league for $350,000 - the league splits the fee among the other teams, but the money must be spent on advertising. Do this for a couple of times a year and you will see the attendance numbers grow exponentially.
     
  5. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I was taking the "My view of the A-League in the near future" too far into the future and adding a dose of optimism.

    Essentially, I believe that these things can happen, but I know that it takes money. If we shrink into regional leagues, we may save money, but we aren't poised to grow. In fact, I think that strategy will hurt our chances for growth. Short-term versus long-term.

    As far as MLS goes, I believe that they are doing most of the legwork in growing the soccer culture because they have money. I know for sure in Seattle that fans are projecting an MLS-type of culture onto the Sounders. They see MLS on TV, they see MLS players on the US national team, and MLS gets media attention. Some fans end up disappointed though because the A-League can't get close enough to that level. If we shrink into regional leagues, this phenomenon will get worse, and the A-League will always be minor league. But as we grow, and I see that happening, the A-League will be closer to MLS in terms of professionalism and legitimacy.

    Remember, MLS can't have more than 18 teams. There are cities that will be left behind. They will be primed and ready to house second division teams. Will the A-League be ready? I am worried that regional leagues will not prepare us for this future.

    - Paul
     
  6. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I beg to differ with you on the way to get to what we want.

    The idea of the regional leagues will allow those teams to get stronger, but it will also cast the game in a brighter light in those cities and surrounding markets.

    So lets say for example, we regionalize the leagues, and the west coast division has

    Portland
    Seattle
    Vancouver
    Calgary
    Edmonton
    California Gold
    San Diego
    Utah
    El Paso

    ---
    Well as the league grows we add team in Las Vegas, Phoenix, Sacramento.

    A couple of years later, we add a team in the Los Angeles suburbs (Orange County Blue Stars) and then we get a team in the Bay Area.

    Couple of years go by and we add a team in Tucson, Albequerque and Colorado Springs (or someplace else in Colorado).

    Now the region is big enought to start looking at having
    USL 1 and USL 2. We can than add promo/Relegation and all the while taking our league fees and dividing them among the existing teams to spend on advertising.

    Maybe after the first two years we take our expansion fees and give 50% to the teams outside the division of the new team, and 50% split among the teams in the affected division.

    Of course none of this can happen unless the teams own the league - but that's another kettle of smelly fish.
     
  7. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    Look at Charleston. 80,000 pop. I believe with a SSS. Spokane, Boise, Salt Lake City, other smaller MINOR league cities would help to defray travel expenses being closer to Portland and Seattle as an example. Also, will remain in the A-League rather than expand to MLS like Seattle will eventually do someday. How about Albany, NY as well as Buffalo? The list of minor league cities is huge and should be considered.

    Yeah, Charleston should be the A-League prototype IMO.
     
  8. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Charleston's pop is higher than 80,000. Has to be 800,000 - but you are right.
     
  9. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From another thread


    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=53826


     
  10. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now there a lot of cities in between that have A-League, PDL, or D3.

    I'll see if I can get those for you later.

    Watching the Feyenoord v PSV on tv now
     
  11. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Actually the US census total in 2000 had it at 96650.
     
  12. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that Metropolitan area or the city proper? Hartford is about 135,000 but with nearly 2 million within a 45 mile radius or something like that.
     
  13. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Charleston-North Charleston, SC MSA 509,856

    That's the metropolitan population- I think that ranks # 78 in the country.

    Still loads of places can make this happen, trick is finding the millionaires to own the teams and build the stadiums.
     
  14. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    How did Charleston pull it off? Can anyone fill me in? People rave about Rochester, but the folks at 100,000 pop. Charleston seemed to have founded a nice soccer venue that frankly is the jewel of the A-League.

    Certainly could be the model for other such operations IMO.
     
  15. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The stadium was built by Tony Bakker, a super rich computer software guy. he owns the team as well and wanted something that was like his native England.

    If I had $100,000,000 I'd build a couple of stadiums just for fun and I'd have an A-League team or two.

    My son's an aspiring rock star - he's only 14, but he said that if he hits it big, I can have a stadium and a team. Now that would kick ass!
     
  16. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    How much did the stadium cost? We've got a jewel in Portland, OR at the U of Portland that cost around $5 mil, without lights. That was almost twenty years ago I believe, maybe would cost much more at this time. (No professional clubs cannot play there, the neighborhood won't allow it)
     
  17. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Supposedly under $5 Million and no cost for the land.
     
  18. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    I would think those types of stadiums could be possible throughout much of the United States. I know $5 million is a hunk of change, but careful work should be able to carry such projects off eventually. I suppose over time this will happen, but the A-League seems a bit messy and disorganized at this juncture. That may change sometime in the future, and hopefully sooner than later.
     
  19. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if we wait for the A-League to organize it, we'll all be dead.
     
  20. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Some points

    Nice discussion...

    I don't think a regional schedule is all that bad. Sure I'd like to see Portland and Seattle visit Charleston every season, but I don't think it is a major issue. People here in Charleston are going to come out and watch the Battery play whether it is Rochester or Mosquito Creek FC. In other leagues like the NBA where fans want to see a certain "star" player or "glamour" team come to town. Even in MLB the two leagues mean that fans will not see every team. Sure some diehard A-League fans would like to see a certain player, but I feel that for most fans it isn't a big deal. This may be a generalization, but most fans want to spend some time outdoors, drink a few brews, meet up with some friends, and watch a good soccer game.

    The important thing IMO is the quality of play and meeting minimum standards. It may be fine for the Battery to beat Mosquito Creek FC 6-0, but what about Mosquito Creek? It is going to be hard for them to drum up support in their community when they are getting hammered every week. This is a great way to kill a promising lower division side. I remember when Calgary was well supported in PDL and when they made the jump to the A-League their team struggled and their attendance suffered (there were probably other factors, too -- but this is just an illustration). Promoting teams just to fill up space is not the answer unless these teams are equipped with the resources to make such a jump worthwhile. Regional leagues are fine as long as all the teams are able to be competitive. There is always going to be a team in last place, but if they are not competitive they are merely going to be league punching bags (like Cincy) and the league is not going to develop a long lasting presence in that community.

    Some other points…

    I believe Virginia Beach will see an attendance rise next season. They have had some tough times up there and hopefully this years Mariners team proved to the community that they are worthy of support.

    Maybe SAS will be interested in getting a team in the A-League to utilize that nice stadium in Cary, NC in case the WUSA’s Courage is not revived.
     
  21. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My thoughts on Mosquito FC. They will struggle at first, but they will also be able to battle Grasshopper United, the Cheesetown Cockroaches and other teams on their level. Maybe one of these sneaks through and has a good run and gets to the post-season. That would probably push the other insect clubs to work even harder and have their own inspiring season.

    Look at Westchester, last season dormat - this season runnerups in the league.

    Why did they jump up? They wanted to be the 2003 CT Wolves who got to the semi-finals, and they did even better than the Wolves.
     
  22. mutinywxgirl

    mutinywxgirl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Really? We wanted to be the Wolves in disguise??? LOL! And I just thought we wanted to go out and kick some butt and really surprise some people - which I think we did ;)
     
  23. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    [​IMG]

    Watch out A-League, the Cheesetown Cockroaches are coming... I see your point though -- it may not be all gloom and doom as I posted, but the "insect clubs" will have an uphill battle.
     
  24. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Re: Some points

    Sure in all the other leagues teams don't visit other teams during the season, but it gets to be a bit much playing the same teams each season. At least they rotate it around in those leagues. A couple of years ago Vancouver played Seattle 7 times in one season! One quarter of the season schedule played against the same team. Vancouver has proven they will come out to watch whoever is coming to town play, but sometimes playing the same team over and over is going to cause fans to get bored.
     
  25. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    What's bad is the casual fan really notices when you keep playing the same teams over and over.

    Out west here we had it particularily hard with a 4 team division (18 of our 28 games were against 3 teams. UGH). The diehard fans in the Timbers Army and our season ticket holders don't care enough to stop going to games but I can tell you that my friends who I talked into going started asking me about playing the same teams over and over.

    Hell I was up in Seattle for the Timbers second away match up there in May and by a quirk of scheduling the first two home matches for Seattle were against us. As I was leaving the stadium I had a Seattle fan ask me if they were going to play anyone else but us this year?.

    It does make a difference. You should not play a team more than 4 times in a 28 game season. On top of that the importance of the matches and the rivarly get's greatly diminished the more you play each other.
     

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