Murder of United Health Care CEO

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Kazuma, Dec 4, 2024.

  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    FWIW. Kaczynski was a very, very talented young mathematician.
     
  2. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Look, I really don't want to live in a place where that is happening. There is a word for such a situation, and it's called "revolution". Living in times of revolution is difficult, tortuous, deadly.

    But at some point it's inevitable. One side can't keep taking and taking and taking without the other side eventually firing back. I really wish this first shot could have been a come-to-Jesus moment where those people could see where their behavior is leading us, but I guess not.
     
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  3. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would hope the revenge would be taken out on the people that could actually do something about it, politicians, but we just elected the worst of the bunch and he is nominating people that will complete the grift.

    It's about to get a whole lot worse.
     
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  4. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    The Dems thought we were passed sexism. It was a fatal mistake. As we have seen, run a woman against Trump and you will lose, run a white male and you win.
     
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  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    This will be a legendary case for all future ethics and philosophy classes.
     
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  6. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Not to mention sociology and social psychology. This is Paris 1789 in a bottle.
     
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  7. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So your solution is murder? :confused:
     
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  8. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    It's not my first solution. This has been a known problem for decades and the politicians haven't done much to crack down on these companies. Does this surprise me? Not really. Do I feel bad for the CEO? No. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
     
  9. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand this position, but we are no where close to that point of revolution, and likely won't be due to the relative wealth we have as a country and as a middle class, and our ability to move.
     
  10. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    A middle class that continues to shrink rapidly and a lower class that finds it harder and harder to not just move up but make ends meet.
     
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  11. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Prove the White part. Yes, I am fully aware that you and Auria are saying this (and others?), but I'm not sold on the racism ineligibility part. Particularly if the Democrats have an actual primary (and not the kind we had in 2016). A male with a strong economic message I think wins. A female with a strong economic message loses.

    But, a male who is White will definitely make it easier.
     
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  12. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I once thought nobody could lose to Trump again. Then I thought Biden was the only guy who could lose to Trump. You think Harris lost to Trump because she is female? I am now reaching the conclusion that given the mood of the nation, Trump most likely would have beaten any Democratic candidate this time around.

    Of course, that doesn't make me feel any better, and it certainly doesn't mean that we are pass sexism.
     
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  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...e-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/

    upload_2024-12-13_15-29-17.png

    A drop of 11% over 40 years is not big. And a rise of just 4% is even less.

    But, by way of comparison, I recently saw the numbers for Argentina. At the start of Milei's term, their poverty rate was 25%. Now it is 50%. Is a revolution in the works? Doesn't seem so. At a 50% poverty rate.
     
  14. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    And a fourth rate social theorist.
     
  15. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was a fairly tight race, and any number of things could have potentially swung it in a different direction. I agree with others that having a male candidate would have been one of the biggest difference makers. And I feel like I was in denial about that fact before the election.
     
  16. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
  17. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    How they define "middle class" is terrible. It is just the middle segment of how much you make vs people in your area. But costs have risen so much more than wages. I'm smack dab in the middle of the middle in my area according to the web site, and I have the occasional month where I don't make enough to cover my rent. I don't feel middle class.

    With zero support from family, in 1971 a busboy at a decent restaurant could buy a house in San Francisco while raising 4 boys with a stay-at-home wife. I know it's possible because that's what my father did. You think that's possible now? What does "middle class" mean if that has changed so much?
     
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  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    My wife, growing up, had a friend whose father was a cook in a diner, and the mother a waitress in the same diner. Three of the four kids in that family went to college(the other to the Navy. The family owned a house, too.

    This was in Newport, RI around the same time. This can’t even happen for a couple in Scranton, PA these days.
     
  19. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Let's keep our focus on CEOs and Oligarchs. Just want to make sure Realtors aren't seen as part of the problem.
     
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  20. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is interesting is that to your typical person, that is really the one means they have at their disposal. You can say they have the legal system, etc. but that shit takes time and money and there is no way Joe Citizen can take on big pharma. It's just not going to happen.

    So I'm not surprised when someone takes this approach.
     
  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I saw a short summary by a PhD in Ethics on the ethical analysis of this murder. The tl;dr is it depends. If the justice system is serving it's purpose then this is not ethical and that is the primary question here. My two cents is that this is again another political issue. If the people are really serious about this then change will be forced.
     
  22. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV


    It's interesting that outside of the U.S., much of the framing has been pretty sympathetic to the killer, or at the very least with a focus on the repressive tactics of health insurance companies.
     
  23. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Broader context: the presenter is confronting the panel member with a tweet in which the spokesperson of a left-wing politician, Nathalie Arthaud, expresses sympathy for Mangioni, likely expecting him to condemn the tweet, but he starts with a personal anecdote about his mother dying in a U.S. hospital and then more broadly talks about U.S. healthcare injustices.
     
  24. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    France
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    The important thing is now that Republicans are in power again they can go against the rich lobbyists of the for-profit health care industry and make it better for the American public! :cautious:

    To highlight how profitable the health care industry is in the US, consider how many MLS teams have a health care organization as their primary jersey sponsor.
    1. Cincinnati = Mercy Health
    2. Colorado = UC Health
    3. Columbus = Nationwide Children's Hospital
    4. Dallas = UT Southwestern Medical Center
    5. Houston = MD Anderson Cancer Center
    6. New England = United Healthcare
    7. Orlando = Orlando Health
    8. RSL = Select Health
    9. Seattle = Providence Health

    And here's the secondary shirt-sleeve sponsors:
    1. Atlanta = Piedmont Healthcare
    2. Philadelphia = Independence Blue Cross
    3. RSL (again) = Intermountain Health
    4. St Louis = BJC Healthcare

    That's many millions of dollars going into advertising just for MLS teams.
     
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  25. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    I feel like eventually this country has to move to civilized provision of health care. I hope I live to see it.
     

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