Look, everybody tried negotiating with these deranged lunatics. None other than the great negotiator/appeaser Bill Clinton and the Uber-hag Madeline Albright spent eight laong years jawboning Arafat and holding Israel's feet to the fire. Arafat was the "leader" who visited the WH more than any other during the CLinton years. He probably had his own intern. The result was the Intifada. Even Clinton bitterly blames the Palestinians for the lack of a Peace Deal. So the Israelis got tired of getting blown up while eating lunch and said "Screw it" (in Yiddish most likely) and are building a wall to keep the madmen who want to kill them from getting in. It's a brilliant success. And it's roundly condemned by the UN and the "International Community". Tough beans. Israel has a right to protect itself. This was not a first resort. Not by a long shot. It was a last resort. Build away, guys. Is there a lesson here for us too?
I'm still at a loss for why Israel doesn't have the right to build a fence to keep out groups like Hamas who have the stated goal of destroying Israel.
I wonder what the UN's reaction would be if the world court was actually located in Israel. Something tells me Kofi Annon would be wearing a hard hat and work boots ordering Jaques Chirac to help build the wall if the UN actually had to deal with what Israel has to deal with. Bill makes a point that I often wonder about, how do some of the bigsoccer left rationalize thier support for both Bill Clinton AND Palestine? If you love Clinton wouldn't you immediately be pro-israeli? Clinton himself said he'd pick up a gun and go to war for Israel. There are some people who like both Chomsky and Clinton, when Chomsky has spent the last 10 years bashing Clinton. I just don't get it. Speaking of Chomsky, he is a jewish holocaust denier, and white liberal elitist college kids love him. Getting back to the point, you had the camp david peace talks which only an idiot would argue that Arafat did the right thing and didn't agree to it, you have the current roadmap to peace which again is rational enough to get peace going, but you have these radical islamist who will not give up until the Jews are extinct. Honestly I've looked at the situation from every view point possible and the only conclusion I can come to is that radical islam is what is hurting the Palestinians. If you blow up 20 people at a grocery store OF COURSE the IDF is gonna send tanks to your neighborhood. Anyone would. What do you expect the Jews to do - nothing? One thing that satisfies me is that aside from Howard Dean and Ted kennedy, even the Democrats are pro-Israeli.
When the guy next door is doing sh!t like THIS only the blindest of Anti-Semites would deny Israel the right to try and stop them.
Ten-year-olds are so cute when they're talking about baseball cards, PlayStation, GI Joe figures, and blowing up Israeli tanks and aircraft.
The lesson for us is that it might be something to consider on the border with Mexico. Considering your other thread about health care, the requirement of giving health care to everyone whether they can pay or not, has overwhelmed the hospitals along the border. That is just one of the many big problems caused by illegal aliens coming over the southern border. We need to tell the Mexicans that we don't care how loud they caterwaul, we're taking ownership of our border. I would make Mike Ditka the border czar. And we need to keep debunking the myth that if we deny restaurants their cheap busboys, our economy will collapse.
While I agree that illegal immigration can be a drain on our resources, I can't imagine it would be a bigger drain than a wall across the from California to Brownsville. Let's keep a little perspective. Israel is real small, putting up a few hundred miles of fence (actually what is the length?) or so would be peanuts.Plus how hard would be to patrol the entire length of said wall. The two scenarios just aren't very comprable beside keeping people on two different sides of a wall. One is a matter of life and death. Plus the threat from Mexicans isn't very dire.
Let's just consider California prisons - state prisons. 20,000 illegal aliens. At $20,000 per inmate per year, that's $400 million. Assuming that this is 20% of the total for the US, that's $2 billion per year. The Israel fence costs them $1.6 million per mile. The US border with Mexico is 2000 miles, so a similar fence might cost $3.2 billion. Cheaper, if you build it with illegal aliens. The actual costs of illegal immigration dwarf those numbers.
Yeah, why don't we tax all of Mexico? Why didn't I think of that? Oh yeah, then they'd be the 51st state and we need that like we need a HOLE IN THE HEAD. AAAAAAARGH!
That's one thing I just don't get. Mexicans will tell you that the US wants to take over Mexico. Actually, I can't think of anything we'd rather NOT do. What a sewer. Straightening out Mexico's problems would destroy the US economy. Mexico would have collapsed into a corrupt, fetid, disgusting ball of pus, a black hole of revolution and disaster years and years ago if there wasn't this tacit agreement that we'll take the pressure off by letting millions of half-starved people into the US. We're the relief valve that keeps the place from exploding and allows Mexicos elites to continue stealng whatever wealth Mexico produces. Sealing up that border would scare the living crap out of the Mexican government. Which is a good reason to do it as far as I'm concerned. When we're not taking their poor off their hands and allowing their citizens to lve here and send billions of dollars back there to support their families, civil war will be a matter of months.
Krauthammer has an EXCELLENT PIECE on the ICJ decision, which points out, among other things, that not even the European Union and Russia endorsed this illegal proceeding, and that the Chief Justice, who read the decision, was from the humanitarian state called China. In fact, over 93 percent of its length consists of fences, troughs and electronic devices to prevent terrorist infiltration. Less than one kilometer out of every 15 is wall, and this is generally in areas that Palestinian gunmen have been using to shoot directly onto Israeli highways and villages. Sensors and troughs cannot stop bullets.
Interesting "slice of life" piece from Israel. Arafat has lost, and he blew it all by himself. He could have had the whole enchilada from Clinton, but chose to give the madmen free rein. This is his reward. Meanwhile Israel has learned what too many Americans have yet to figure out: you don't beat these people with words or deals. You beat them by beating them. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/214001p-184270c.html
It's fine that Israel is building a wall to protect them selvs from psykos, but why do they have to take 1/3 of Palestina as well????
They haven't "taken" anything. They're "keeping" it. Big difference. They've given up the entire Sinai peninsula. They've given up most of the West Bank. They're in the process of evacuating Gaza. The fact that they want to try and maintain defensible borders is not unreasonable. The only reason they have these areas in the first place is that in 1947, 1956, 1968 and 1972 their neighbors attacked them. In kicking the crap out of various Arab "Armies" (hahahahahahaha) they ended up gaining territory. In any case, there is no such thing as Palestine {or Palestina, as you would apparently have it). Never existed in all of recorded history. The South Syrian area was part of Jordan until King Hussein got tired of the lunatics and cut it loose in the 60's. Israel, and all nations, have a right to defend themselves, and this right includes the right to establish defensible borders. All of these areas (and "1/3 of Palestine" is an absurd exaggeration) were offered to the Palestinian Authority in 2000 in return for a) Recognition of Israel's right to exist and b) The PLO stopping the terror attacks. They refused. So the result is this "wall". It's not the solution anybody wanted. If the 37 million Arabs living in the Middle East had been willing to leave Israel alone, Israel would be sitting happily on the indefensible slice of ground it was given by UN mandate. They didn't create this situation. They're just adapting to it. But I'm willing to be fair: when the world demands that all countries who gained territory during the wars of the 1940's gives it back (East Prussia to Germany for example) then I'll believe that they're sincere. Until then it's just sanctimonious hogwash.