When Jozy is healthy and match fit, he is the best forward in our pool. And frankly, has been for a decade. That "healthy and match fit" part has been a problem of late. On current form, he's going to get consistent USMNT playing time. He's the 3rd leading USMNT scorer in history, and has every chance to catch Donovan/Dempsey. He's only 29. He has a higher goals per game rate than Landon Donovan for the USMNT, and the abuse he gets is a little bit mind-boggling. He has a higher goals/game rate than Brian McBride. If you ask me, he's unfairly been made a scapegoat by the fans. If he can stay healthy (if, if, if), he does have a chance to get to 50 goals at least. The list of players who've scored 50 international goals is relatively short. We all know why Altidore isn't considered an absolute legend by USMNT fans. He hasn't had that legendary WC performance that others have. He was the youngest starting forward for any nation at the 2010 World Cup, he got injured in the first game at the 2014 edition, and we failed to qualify for the 2018 version. [He was the 2nd leading scorer in all of CONCACAF in the qualifying event BTW.] Just the way it goes.................
I would say he "can" be. Wood plays hard all the time. Altidore does when he feels like it and even then fouls and non-calls can take him completely out of his game to where he just walks and whines. I will agree that when he's motivated he's a force.
If you're the Big Dawg, you're expected to guarantee things. He hasn't even starred at a Gold Cup I don't think though he's had a few goals which helped him to some status. With his youth, he should have easily been MVP in a tournament or Golden Boot winner by now at the Gold Cup.
Jozy suffers from the poorly timed injury that wasn't career ruining. People are more forgiving of Jones and Stu Holden and Johansson who all missed all or parts of major tournaments. It's like with Landon, people are more angry with the guys who are good enough any healthy enough to be fixtures.
Hasn't starred at the Gold Cup? Are you serious? In 2017 he scored in the semifinal and final. You know, the tournament we won. This isn't ancient history. He does this over and over and over for the USMNT...............and for some reason fans don't seem to remember it. The guy has scored nearly 50 international goals, and people seem to have a blind spot for almost all of them. Remember when he scored the game-winning goal against Spain in the Confederations Cup semifinal? Or is it just me. Here's a homework assignment. Jozy Altidore has scored 18 goals in World Cup qualifying. Name the players that have scored more.............................. We can say he didn't score enough in 2018 WCQing. He, Pulisic, and Dempsey [Who was on track before his untimely heart problem.] were the only ones scoring in 2018 WCQing. Where was everybody else? Altidore scored more 2018 WCQing goals than anybody on Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Canada, blah, blah, blah. An actual fact. What..........did we need him to be Superman in order to qualify? People tend to focus on what Jozy Altidore HASN'T done instead of taking stock and appreciating what he HAS done. I think it just comes down to expectations they had for him when he was a teenager, and they thought he was going to develop into a starting-caliber forward in a "top 4 league." Since he didn't accomplish that, they've just kinda classified him as a disappointment. Again, he's 29. He has a better goals/game rate for the USMNT than Brian McBride. He's going to blow away Brian McBrides goal tally for the USMNT. Blow it away. So why do people lionize McBride.............and imply that Altidore is lazy or an underachiever or is too much of a whiner? I don't get it. Fact. Jozy Altidore is 29. Brian McBride was 32 when he went to Fulham. Altidore's resume at 29 blows away McBride's. The only difference? WC2002. Jozy's untimely injury in 2014 robbed him of a world cup "in his prime." C'est La vie.
I did write "I don't think". Yes 2 goals in a tournament with the B-squad. We seem to really kick ass in those as opposed to the 2011/15/19 A-squad ones. Jozy scored the first goal against Spain. How is that always his go-to event for so many? I'd say the hattrick against Bosnia in summer 2013 or the qualifying goals that summer. I concur. He's 29. He should be top scorer by now. How many goals has he gotten against non-CONCACAF opposition. How many goals scored against regional minnows? Fans have high expectations but shouldn't we after all he moved to the 3rd ranked team in La Liga when he was 18. He flopped in England but he could have easily found success again in the Netherlands or perhaps France or Italy and scored (by now) 50 goals in the time since he left Sunderland. And as you mentioned, he's come up short in WC's. Though, I thought he did good in 2010.
My assessment of Jozy is that he is the most talented finisher that we have ever had. In the final third, when he gets the ball, he is supremely dangerous, both as a shooter and setting up others. In other areas of the game, he's not as good. His hold-up play is decent, but he doesn't contribute much to build-up. He gets the ball in midfield, he'll hold the ball, then lay it off to a midfielder well enough - but that generally ends his motion and involvement in the play. He's adequate at drawing defenders, but he doesn't intuitively pull away markers in order to create the opening for others. He's not particularly great at making incisive runs to beat the offside trap on the counter. Overall, his off-the-ball movement is lacking. And I think that makes sense, because when Jozy has been at his most successful, he hasn't been really asked to do that. His best role is up-front, in the vanguard, tip of the spear. He's not been asked to be the sneaky guy slipping into open spaces or making clever little moves in building up play, because that's not his game. Jozy's best role is the one that makes the most of his talents - getting the ball in the box, taking on defenders, even in tight spaces, and either taking the strike or making the pass to set up for someone else. He is at his best when he's the one executing that final move. And that's what he does with Toronto, what he did for AZ, and what he's doing when he's at his best for the USMNT. The problem comes when the situation does not allow for this kind of play, and you need Jozy to do more. If your midfield can't possess the ball, if they can't get the ball to Jozy in the final third, if Jozy has to start pulling back and get involved with the build-up - that's where he struggles. Actually, "struggle" might not be the right word - he's just out of his element. At Sunderland, where they played a defensive block, attacking only on the counter, that didn't play to his strengths. He's not amazing as a hold-up man, and he's not going to be chasing down long balls. He'll be adequate, but he won't be racking up the scoring. And when the USMNT is playing against competition that isn't allowing us to control the midfield and provide good service into the box, Jozy will similarly be starved for opportunities. And we've seen that. There have been times when Bobby Wood has come on for Jozy and we look improved the attack. Now, in my opinion, Bobby Wood is not anywhere near the finisher Jozy is - but Bobby Wood's game is purely about making runs on the counter-attack. So if we're struggling for possession and playing back in defensive mode and can't control midfield play, then Bobby's inclination to make those speedy runs and provide a direct outlet on the counter is going to work better with that. But Bobby can't even compare to what Altidore can do in the box. Basically, Altidore is that striker who is just that - a pure striker. Give him the ball in the box - that's where he thrives. Ask him to do anything else - he'll be adequate, but not brilliant, and you'll be missing his skills up front where he's best. Frankly speaking, it's too late to change Jozy. You're not going to be able to reform his game - especially not as he grows older and his athletic ability declines. And I don't think Jozy is inclined to change his game, either. We've gotten some success with two strikers up front in the past, playing a second striker behind Jozy - but then we only have 4 in the midfield. If we can figure out a system that reliably allows Altidore to play that role, then that would be ideal. Maybe, with Gregggg's emphasis on a possession-oriented midfield, it might work....
Listen, here's Jozy the last couple of weeks. Make a list of other US-eligible forwards even capable of doing this and its really small. Folks make a much bigger deal about lesser performances and lesser goals from other players. Jozy does this kind of stuff, and folks just kinda shrug. Ho hum I guess. When he is healthy and match fit, he is our best #9 in the pool. And frankly, its not particularly close. The problem has been that "healthy and match fit" part. Bobby Wood? You must be joking. 1155621068205428736 is not a valid tweet id
what difference does it make if he scores a lot for his club team if he doesn't deliver the same FIRE for the NT?
Except he does. There are two players with a higher goals/game rate than Jozy Altidore for the USMNT in modern times. Clint Dempsey and Christian Pulisic. That's it. That's the list. Its like nothing Jozy Altidore ever does will be good enough for some folks. The guy scored important goals in the semifinal and final of the 2017 Gold Cup and also in that same time frame was our leading scorer in 2018 WC qualifying.....................and folks say "well, what has he done for us lately?" Hello? The guy just came on in the 2019 Gold Cup and did fine. Did I not just see that goal against Panama? I'm confused. Do people want to start Gyasi Zardes this badly? I don't get it. By the way, just so we're on the same page..................Jozy Altidore has more assists for the USMNT than DaMarcus Beasley. He has more goals AND more assists in fewer games than a legend like DaMarcus Beasley. Do people realize this? That Jozy Altidore has the same number of assists for the USMNT as playmakers like Tab Ramos. I guess it doesn't mean anything to people. He just doesn't exude enough "fire." Whatever the hell that means.
No one is saying anyone else is better than Jozy but people also remember the bad times with Jozy. Personally, I say give Weah, Nova and Sargent chances up top. This Gold Cup could have been theirs to shine rather than bringing in the likes of Zardes and Morris. Jozy is a polarizing figure. He may be the BEST we have but that doesn't mean as much as you or others might think it to mean. If you score 5 hattricks against Curacao or Panama, that's pretty good but it's not even the same as 1 hattrick against a Germany or even a Scotland in a WC match. Jozy has great stats for the NT but considering how long he's been around; I'd reckon his could just as easily be far better. Maybe ultimately it's the fact that we are all disappointed he didn't achieve the career many had envisioned.
weah couldn't play 9 for teenage ball. sargent has some goals as a NT 9, soto is the U20 flavor of the month at 9 (who did the job when weah couldn't), and wood is the appropriate aged player who has scored on good enough teams where we have someone experienced and historically productive around for those kinds of street brawls. jozy would do fine for now but the issue is succession planning and the percent likelihood he repeats what we endured with bradley, jones, and beckerman last time. he will be 30 this year and we have 3 years to the tournament. we already are managing his minutes and he has a plentiful injury history including last season. i would get if he was a landon or dempsey fitness fanatic distance runner, durable, but that's not him. to me this is our overdog streak where we like our brand names and struggle to plan for the longer term. it is a standard thing on successful teams with deep pools to shove aside the older players at this part of the cycle and see if the next generation is ready. we instead, because of our biases, replicate what mediocre or bad teams with shallow pools do, which is ride their name brands off the cliff like we have no other choice. guatemala and the fish ruiz so to speak. we have other choices and the irony of our depth is if jozy defies age somehow then he is always just a phone call away, and he will be proving his value at the time of call and not just living off rep.
to me, most teams that had to work through every game from panama on, in order to finish second scoreless, while getting no 9 goals in the knockouts (all mckennie and pulisic), would be shopping their 9 spot and not having the rather claustrophobic and uncreative debate of lime pepsi vs coke zero that is going around in the jozy vs zardes circle. that would scream, dead end, move to the next generation. i would agree that on paper jozy remains viable and better than zardes, but we're kind of ignoring what happened in the knockout round of gold cup where the 9 position disappeared. i fully expect us to continue in this same manner because we are stubborn and stupid and pecking order oriented. more to the point, we fail to connect betting on certain players with how games finish. until you get that zardes and bradley aren't getting it done, you're lost. i fully expect GB is blaming boyd or anyone but who he should be, because he'd have to pop balloons he doesn't want to touch.
he is the appropriate age, 26, averages a goal every 3-4 games (more than zardes), and has scored on better teams, eg, holland, germany, mexico, CR, Honduras, Panama, Colombia, Ireland. i sense there is some lame parsing going on when that becomes "but not necessarily in a qualifier." that particular set of victims it doesn't matter. there is some risk in his selection on form, but what i see is pick him and sargent and soto and have him be the reliable old hand around. either him or jozy -- but then the risk is jozy ages out. you need someone who has demonstrated history scoring on the teams we need goals from. zardes has never scored on anyone in the region better than trinidad, even after being handed the keys this summer. i might have been inclined to your argument on paper but not after how the gold cup knockouts went with no goals from strikers. basically all our goals from midfielders. fwiw zardes can be used wide -- so he can compete with boyd and weah and morris -- and if he makes the team he doubles as an emergency striker. to me it should be Pulisic/Arriola Sargent/Soto/Wood Weah/Boyd. you have Jozy and Zardes' numbers if the kids aren't ready. but based on GC Jozy and Zardes aren't good enough. and the beauty of that bunch is they would have 2-3 world cups in them, everyone except wood, if they flourished.
Outside of the goal against Mexico in 2002 I don’t think McBride ever scored against Mexico in a WCQ. The bulk of his “games that matter” goals came against the same lowly concacaf competition that Jozy gets poo pooed for. I think he was a pretty limited route one guy when compared with the likes of a Dempsey or Donovan. He’ll always be one of my all time favorites because of 2002 but really, only because of 2002.
So where are all the offers for Jozy? The difference was McBride's loans at Preston and Everton. McBride's eight games at Everton yielded twice as many goals as Jozy's two and a half seasons at Hull City and Sunderland. That's the difference not the 02 Cup.
Sure. Brian McBride scored 5 goals combined at Preston and Everton. Wow. Shiver me timbers By the way, at what age did Brian McBride go on loan at Everton? I'll give you a hint: He was older than Jozy Altidore is now. At the 2002 World Cup, Brian McBride was older than Jozy Altidore is now. Almost everything folks first think of when they think of McBride occurred when he was older than Jozy is now. His entire tenure at Fulham occurred after the age of 32. Jozy Altidore is 29. He has a higher goals/game rate than McBride for the USMNT. He's scored more goals than McBride for the USMNT. He's scored just as many goals against good international opposition for the USMNT as McBride. He's scored more goals in Europe than McBride. The eredevisie isn't chopped liver. He's approaching more goals in MLS than Brian McBride. He's 29. Can he go to Preston and score one freaking goal like Brian McBride did? Of course he can. One difference between McBride and Jozy? MLS is paying him 6.3 million dollars this season in guaranteed compensation to play in MLS. Should I repeat that number? 6.3 million dollars. That's night and day from when McBride was in MLS. Jozy isn't getting paid that in Europe. Should we mention that Jozy Altidore is MLS Cup Champion. Should we mention that during the 2017 MLS playoffs, Jozy Altidore scored the game winning goal in both the Eastern Conference Semifinal and MLS Cup? Should we mention his performance in the 2018 CONCACAF Champions League? He scored in the quarterfinal against Tigres, semifinal against America, final against Chivas. I can keep going. He scored in the semfinal and final of the 2017 Gold Cup. We all understand what Jozy hasn't done. There's a colossal hole in his resume relating to World Cup performance. What's so amazing is that folks show so little respect for what he HAS done. I don't know why that is. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
There is always context though. Where was McBride playing in his teens? Milwaukee rampage? Were the Prem teams he played on as dogshitte as Sunderland or Hull?
It’s I would go as far to say that Clint Mathis and his bag of Doritos are held in higher esteem by some.
The deal with Wood is that if he doesn't score he is useless. His number of assists is ridiculously low. He is a tank with a very strong shot. He is also very streaky, he either scores in bunches or can't buy a goal. To put him on the team when he isn't in a top form is waste of space. And he isn't in a top form now. When he is, he is welcome back.
Some this season MLS stats. Jozy's per minute rate is at Jozef Martinez-Zlatan level. Behind Vela. If you discount PKs goals he is way ahead of Martinez/Zlatan and ahead of Vela.
McBride scored 1 goal in 9 games for Preston, in the second tier.. He scored 4 in 8 for Everton. 2 came against bottom dwellers Sunderland, who finished the season with 19 points. The other 2 came against Spurs and Charlton. His record for Fulham was pretty ordinary with one goal every 4 games.