Most Underachieving Programs Since Title IX (1995)

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by OGSoccerCoach, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. OGSoccerCoach

    OGSoccerCoach Member

    May 11, 2017
    I was reading the hot seat thread and this popped into my brain..I'll try to back up my opinions with facts. I'm sure that this will fire some people up (the intended reaction....).

    University of Texas - Overall Record: 279-186-52. Conference Championships: 2001; Conference Tournament Championships: 2006, 2007. NCAA tournament appearances: 14. Best NCAA Tournament Finish: last 16 (2004, 2006, 2007 and 2017). Best final ranking: 8 (2006).
    So many resources, so little results. This is a program that should consistently find themselves in the last 8 of the NCAAs.

    University of California - Overall Record: 303-161-54. Conference Championships: 1998 (tied for 1st). NCAA Tournament Appearances: 20. Best NCAA Tournament Finish: last 16 (2005). Best final ranking: 9 (2005). So many players in their backyard. Should consistently be in the last 8 of the NCAAs.

    University of Georgia - Overall Record: 254-194-43. Conference Championships: 0. Conference Tournament Championships: 0. NCAA Tournament Appearances: 9. Best NCAA Tournament Finish: last 16 (1998). Best final ranking: 20 (1998). The recruiting pool has
    significantly improved in the last 10 years and yet the best GA kids leave the state. This program is a sleeping giant that just needs the right coaching staff brought in to lock up the Georgia kids.

    University of Florida - Overall Record: 425-128-37. Conference Championships: 14. Conference Tournament Championships: 12. NCAA Tournament Appearances: 22. Best NCAA Tournament Finish: Champions (1998). Best final ranking: 1 (1998). How can a program with over 400 wins and a national title be considered an underachieving program? Lack of deep runs in the tournament. 1 national title and 1 other final 4 appearance. They should be in the final 4 once per recruiting class.

    UCLA - Overall Record: 440-94-38. Conference Championships: 11. NCAA Tournament Appearances: 22. Best NCAA Tournament Finish: Champions (2013). Best final ranking: 1 (2013). Another head shaker. ONE national title. 83.5% win/tie percentage. They should win a title every 4-5 years.


    UCAL and Florida are a bit of a stretch, but when you take into consideration the state youth player pool, resources, facilities, etc, they have to be considered underachieving.
     
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  2. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    It looks like all your "underachieving programs" have overall winning records.
     
  3. ping

    ping Member

    Dec 7, 2009
    It looks like OG's general assertion is their post-season performance is incongruent with their "overall winning records."

    How important is post-season performance in women's college soccer to coaches, athletic directors, admin? Is it good enough for a coach to have a winning regular season? Probably school specific as some are delighted to just make the NCAAs and others get criticized for going out early.

    Overall, I think some could argue that if a school has 20+ NCAA appearances they are decent and not "underachieving" as only 1 team wins the thing each year and you often need some good fortunate to advance deep.
     
  4. MW Soccer

    MW Soccer New Member

    FC United
    Germany
    Nov 26, 2018
    How about most over achieving program. Any suggestions?
     
  5. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    WVU - maybe not this year (but maybe). She has done more with less than most P5s considering Duke/Stanford type kids won't touch it. Outside the P5 I rate Dave Nolan at Georgetown and Simon at Hofstra.
    Basically, this is also the short list of good coaches for big p5 jobs. Maybe you could say these are the folks smart enough to stay away from Pitt/Syracuse, etc.

    About UVA - totally sux you didn't get the battle of VA on your home field. Loads of respect for Swanson but interesting comparison with FSU in the same shadow of UNC. Krikorian has gotten over the hump and done it without the academic rep of a UVA. Maybe shows the international route is better than the YNT set. Swanson's connections and time spend at YNT camps hasn't gotten him to the promise land.
     
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  6. Carolina92

    Carolina92 Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    What's wild to me is that the SEC and Big XII still don't field men's soccer teams (except for UK, WVU and USC). That means the women's teams in those conferences have to do more with less funding (facilities, etc.). Two Power 5 conferences only half dedicated to America's 4th most popular sport. If the SEC and Big XII decided to pursue Men's soccer can you imagine the football bowl money that would pour into the sport?
     
  7. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    I guess I do not understand this logic. Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Northwestern, and Wisconsin have men's and women's soccer. How does that put them at an advantage over Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, Auburn, Tennessee, etc who do not have men's soccer?
     
  8. SakiBomb25

    SakiBomb25 Member

    Nov 13, 2004
    I disagree with your assertion that UCLA is underachieving. They are consistently a threat to go to the College Cup and once you are there, it's really anyone's game. Championships should not be a determinant of whether a program underachieves. If you believe that, you might as well add Stanford since the Cardinal only have two titles to its name.
     
  9. Almost done

    Almost done Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Oct 4, 2019
    I agree with UGA being a sleeping giant and an underachiever. Georgia has a big advantage with the Hope Scholarship(offering any Georgia high school student with a 3.0 GPA substantial tuition money)-Maybe this is why they carry such a large roster (33). This scholarship with a fairly strong club soccer community gives UGA a big advantage IMO. With that said, I thought Lesesne should have been let go last year! With a few more wins this year, he may have extended his stay.
     
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  10. ping

    ping Member

    Dec 7, 2009
    Great info, I didn't know that.
     
  11. KayJay1

    KayJay1 New Member

    Mizzou
    United States
    Apr 15, 2017

    What???
     
  12. KayJay1

    KayJay1 New Member

    Mizzou
    United States
    Apr 15, 2017
    Wow? Off on some of these.
     
  13. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    #13 Eddie K, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
    Way to bring up an old thread and contribute absolutely NOTHING! Did you read the posts? Do you have a take? You just made people read that.

    I think having Texas on this list makes alot of sense. Relative to their resources (biggest budget in D1 I believe), location (big State school in a great youth soccer area with very loyal fanbase), have they performed up to expectation in the post season?

    Compare them to WVU. Same conference but some years WV produces zero legit D1 players- zero. UT ended their season losing to 2 TX rivals TCU in the Big12 and A&M in the NCAA tournament, 4-1, after scoring first! That result alone can get a UT coach fired!
    WVU played only 1 more round in the NCAAs but was not as good this year clearly, after winning the Big12 for several years and having that Final4 appearance.
     
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  14. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    It all depends what you consider achievement. It seems your measure is NCAA tournament. Whilst that would be one of my criteria, there would be others.

    Academic measures- graduation, GPAs etc
    Player development - post College careers. Developing and keeping a large percentage of the players recruited (low transfer rates)

    to name a couple. A successful program is a lot more than just how far they go in the NCAA tournament
     
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  15. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both Pitt ans Syracuse have new very good coaching staffs. Pitt has invested heavily in the soccer complex. Both teams had best years in forever last season and are showing signs of being on rise. Problem is they are in one of if not the best conference. Will be interesting to see as Waldrum & Adams get a few more of their recruiting classes how high they can take their programs.
     
  16. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    Okay, I'll play along. UNC just upgraded their facility, look at Louisville, everyone in the ACC will always have a better grass field than that turf at Pitt (and indoor turf at Cuse). What do you think is the ceiling for Waldrum? Really, how good could they do? You think he can compete for ACC titles? I like Pitt just fine, don't get me wrong. Great school. But look at what they have to compete against. The competitive advantage you do have at those schools is that it is turf and teams hate playing there.

    I like Waldrum but I bet he's kicking himself he didn't wait 6 weeks as he would be the Miami coach right now. I think you could put Miami on this 'underperforming" list as well as Wake and BC right now from the ACC.
     
  17. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree about the question of ability to compete in ACC. As I said, it's as tough as it it comes. But they don't appear to be long for the bottom of the conference. Also Syracuse plays on grass - outside.
     
  18. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    Sorry, I should have looked at Syracuse. So that means Pitt has the only turf field in the ACC. That can't be good for them. There was only one way to take that program but I don't envy Waldrum and the challenges there. I think a lot of folks were surprised that he took that job. Hopefully, they can be in next year's 'over achieving' thread.
     
  19. luvthegame

    luvthegame Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    BC has turf.
     
  20. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    What makes you say "very good coaching staff?"

    CRW seems well past his prime and his son has accomplished nothing to make this seem like a "very good" assistant. His other assistant was a JC coach. Nothing about this screams "very good."

    CNA did a fine job at Rice. In 9 years she went to 2 NCAA Tournaments and won the league once. OK, but certainly not amazing considering the league she was in. And the assistants, while better than CRW are ok.

    Neither are head scratchers and certainly make more sense than the OU hire, but neither scream "very good" either.
     
  21. TKO1

    TKO1 New Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Apr 2, 2020
    Don’t underestimate RW. I think the virus is the only thing that will stop him from continually improving that program-quickly. You need athletes to compete. He gets it.

    Syracuse is years away. ACC just too talented.
     
  22. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    Pitt and Syracuse tied this year 1-1. At Pitt. Use something from recent to support your premise please.
     
  23. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Compete with who? The ACC elites? You need comparable soccer players. You need to convince talented kids that starting for Pitt is preferable to coming off the bench or not getting heavy minutes at FSU,UVA,UNC, Duke. Schools like NC State,Louisville, Clemson are not going to be easy to catch. I think Pitt has a big hill to climb to be a mid level ACC team.

    RW is a good coach and a charismatic guy, but a player like West would be a bench player at the top 4 ACC schools. Dont care how good a coach you are, you need the horses in the ACC
     
  24. Carolina92

    Carolina92 Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    With regard to the ACC, I'm not sure I would have any program on the same national "underperforming" level with the likes of schools like Texas, UGA or Cal. The only two schools I'd maybe consider to join that list are Miami and to a lesser extent Clemson (big Football money and national recognition). If you want to talk about in conference, I think that's another topic. FSU makes a strong case for calling out Miami the most underperforming from the ACC. Clemson has been decent, but has failed to reach the post season heights of other ACC programs (no college cup appearances, no ACC Tournament championships). But they have improved in recent years. Louisville and NCSU are the big recent upward movers though. Virginia Tech is fine. Syracuse and Pitt have and should have low expectations but have shown recent signs of improvement. BC, Wake and Notre Dame have had recent slumps, but also have already had the historic success at the national stage that make our expectations of them higher than others. Really the biggest underperformer is Georgia Tech. It's 2020 and they still don't have women's soccer.
     
  25. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I would agree that Texas, Georgia, and Cal are underperformers. Absolutely programs like that should be able to get past the Sweet 16, and none of them have yet.

    I wouldn't classify Pitt and Syracuse as underperformers. They are about where they should be. They don't have better academics than Duke, Notre Dame, Wake, BC, UVa, or UNC. They don't have better facilities than other ACC programs and neither has a draw of a great location. And they certainly don't have any historical advantage with any past success, like UNC, FSU, UVa, and Notre Dame do. Only advantage would be to Waldrum having national success at Notre Dame. You could say about the same for a place like VA Tech and they are probably at their ceiling of what they can do; Louisville as well but they have one of the best facilities in college soccer. Pitt volleyball does well, and Syracuse lacrosses and basketballs do well based on past history whereas men's soccer and field hockey can do well but that seems to be more so from the draw of international recruiting. No way will Pitt and Syracuse get the best American and Canadian players against other ACC and top 25 programs.

    Miami can absolutely be better. But it's one of the worst facilities in the ACC and comparable to just a decent high school field. And they have had a history of making some bad hires like hiring a so-so coach in MFM from a so-so mid-major to run an ACC program. TA did well there to about where their ceiling is when he coached there.

    And programs that have big football $ should be able to do well with the exposure and revenue. Programs like Michigan, Ohio State, Oregon, Alabama, Oklahoma, and LSU. Household national brands and they have $.
     
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