I should have mentioned Vieira too: came on as sub in the Final in 98 and set up the 3rd goal of course.
Including Pique is stretching it too much I rather xabi Alonso or David villa Also Angel di Maria(taking into account his career Not just time in Spain) is one of the greatest big game players of all time He Won the penalty in the world cup final of 22 Scored if I'm correct the winning goal of the copa America final that Argentina won vs Brazil Created the 2-1 goal against atletico Madrid in 2013/14 CL final This with his vision,playmaking and consistency in his career(was even good at Manchester United IMO) makes him one of the best ever in his positon Arjen robben was still on the Real Madrid rooster as late as the pre season of 2009/10 So if we basically include 2008/09 to 2012/13 These are all the all timers(in general or just their positon) I will include those who peaked during the specified time frame and those who did not Lionel Messi Cristiano Ronaldo Xavi hernandez These are the first batch of names that i imagine won't be disputed over at all Andres iniesta Arjen robben Sergio Ramos Dani alves Iker cassilas These are the second batch of names that shouldn't really be disputed over IMO Zlatan ibrahimovic Karim Benzema Raul Ruud van nistelrooy Sergio busquets Angel di Maria Xabi Alonso Cesc Fabregas These are the undecided ones as in if they were All time in their positon(top 15) For entertainment value I will include Pepe(with his manic episodes lol) And he was a very good defender too even better than Ramos at that time in both defending and the dirty side of the game
Tostao, Pele , jarizinho, Rivellino, C.Alberto, Banks , Charlton , Moore [8 all timers] Inter vs Real Madrid 1964 another strong candidate: Luis Suarez, Burgnich, Fachetti, Mazzola, Santamaria, Di Stefano, Puskas , Gento [8 all timers]
A lot of them didn't really feature together . For example Robben was before CR7, Benzema, Alonso were in the club Van Nisterlooy as well when Baptista, Helguera etc used to play. Raul and Zlatan left after 2009/10. Marcelo wasn't a regular starter that time.. etc. Considering the overall timeline 2011-2013 is probably when most all-timers featured in the xi. Messi, CR7, Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Busquets, Di maria, Benzema, Alonso, Ramos - all 11 of them featured in the xi
Kaka too Carlito (since we're going on peak of career to decide, or overall career even, rather than form for the club/country concerned at the time or overall...I think anyway). Like I say it will come down to opinion/perception a bit, and even 'greatness' vs 'quality' if there is a difference sometimes. I might be at least meeting in the middle with Pique/Ramos for example (but it's ok if we differ and I guess your call is partly based in impact in winning the CL) - moving Ramos away from a shouldn't be disputed category (and Casillas maybe too even), but potentially moving Kaka and Raul into it even. Trying similar for a game that popped into my mind as a real contender (for the world class players - I feel like especially with France the rest of the team would not hold up so well probably i.e not exactly borderline candidates; 'the rest of Brazil' isn't very many players at all anyway though - I would still think it's a better option than Brazil vs Sweden in the Final though maybe, even though Djalma Santos played in that and Sweden had Liedholm, Gren, Hamrin, Skoglund, and it might be argued a right back and a centre back could be considered for example for their team I think) France vs. Brazil 1958 | Footballia No dispute: Pele, Didi, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Kopa Shouldn't be much dispute perhaps: Fontaine, Zito Close considerations (arguably somewhere in the top 20-top 50 region for their role?): Gilmar, Piantoni, Vincent, Bellini, Vava, Zagallo, Jonquet Possible outside chance or near miss? - Orlando, Wisnieski
For a 'might have been' game I think of the 1994 Champions League Final; missed by Baresi, Van Basten (albeit long-term injured anyway), plus Costacurta of Milan, and Michael Laudrup of Barcelona, but still played by Maldini, Desailly, Boban, Savicevic, Donadoni, Albertini of Milan and Romario, Stoichkov, Koeman, Guardiola, Bakero, Sergi, Zubizarreta for Barcelona (I'm probably listing Milan players positionally moreso or randomly, and Barca ones vaguely in order of probability or level of inclusion though, confusingly maybe - sorry!). Two Arsenal games that arguably could go above Arsenal-Man Utd ones at least, based on the names involved, including the subs that came on? Arsenal v Barcelona, 19 October 1999 - 11v11 match report Arsenal-Juventus | UEFA Champions League 2001/02 | UEFA.com
I think Pele made Gordon banks(his legacy) I'm not sure any of us really mention him without THAT save
That's probably one where we differ a bit (I am English though so that's a consideration I understand). I think on one hand (no pun intended) as exceptional as the save was it probably gets glorified over others that were in a similar ballpark, even that happened in World Cups (as one possible example, though I'd need to review again and think about it, maybe the North Korean goalie pulled off a comparably good one vs Italy in 1966!), but on the other hand he seems like arguably the best goalie in 1966 based on footage+ratings, and he was both an excellent saver of shots and generally reliable 'keeper already in the 60s (and a star for Leicester, although I would say that he didn't tend to receive enough votes in best player of the season polls to make it among the top contenders in for example Charlie Buchan fan poll particularly often, and never right at the top though that might be hard for a goalkeeper however highly he's rated and however well he plays)
Arjen robben played with Cristiano Ronaldo against Dortmund in the 2009/10 pre season where Robben was legitimately great and actually MOTM Real Madrid had on their rooster at one point Cristiano,Kaka and robben. Had they been at their peak together at the same time it would've been the most devastating frontline of the 2010s and not even MSN is comparable(Messi aside) BBC is even further away from this No defence in history is capable of containing this combined offensive threat IMO not even for a single game Its illegal
'The Galacticos' had they been in their peaks (it can be argued Zidane was in one of his peak periods, for a while anyway) would have taken some beating as a combination overall I think. Whether for example Barcelona was stacked enough with names at any particular time I'm not sure though, in terms of a single game that could be mentioned? I was thinking Mesut Ozil might be worth a mention, and consideration depending on the Classico in question: maybe not having the Champions League impact of a Di Maria or Benzema, but potentially as good a player (or as high up a list for his position/s) or doing just as well or better at a time in La Liga? I think if narrowing it to like half a dozen for the limit in terms of top players by position (at least having a possible case for it), the Netherlands vs Germany 1974 Final comes into it (also the Ajax-Bayern game linked below, but in general the 1974 Final would have more contenders outside the ones I'm naming, to be somewhere in the mix as a notable all-time player as that would bring for example Van Hanegem, Overath, Rensenbrink, Vogts into it and they didn't play in that club game - in general in those older days I think International games are more likely calls and that has changed over time). Beckenbauer as libero, Breitner as left back, Muller as striker, Krol as left back and/or libero, Neeskens as box to box midfielder, Cruyff as false 9 or various other roles potentially.... AFC Ajax vs. Bayern München 1972-1973 | Footballia If making it a dozen instead of half a dozen, I'm thinking maybe this Classico game comes into it too even, in terms of the names (regardless of some coming off the bench, and the fact most probably weren't really in their peak as such at that point) Real Madrid vs. FC Barcelona 1995-1996 | Footballia Redondo as deep-lying playmaker (and Guardiola too if allowing that as a category, though maybe that's a stretch to do that?), or DM/CM in general, Laudrup in the trequartista category, Hagi as AM, Figo as right or even left winger, Raul as support striker, Hierro as cultured centre back if making a distinction with outright markers and therefore two categories for CBs (then after that adding to the general 'stacked' nature of the line-ups can be Zamorano, Luis Enrique, Michel, Popescu, Bakero, Sergi....) Comparing those two examples, I guess the narrower the criteria the more the first one is clearly a better option, and the wider it is the more the second one could be possibly overtaking it I think anyway (but whether it does at the point of all-time player lists with 12 by each position/role I'm not sure as those players such as Rensenbrink and Vogts might then meet that criteria themselves and add to the numbers for the 1974 Final).
That was when the 3-foreigners rule was still in place. That's why Laudrup could not play the game (Koeman, Stoichkov, and Romario were chosen to play ahead of Laudrup). Same for Milan...they chose to field Desailly, Boban, and Savicevic as their foreigners. Savicevic had a blinder.
Yep, Milan also had Papin, Brian Laudrup and Raducioiu on their roster, and Gullit was on loan at Sampdoria! Barcelona had to rotate their 4 star foreigners all season. I suppose the 'super team' era could have come earlier without that rule (for a few clubs anyway).
Haven't looked at the lineups but the Brazil-Argentina encounters in the late 50s probably very stacked. Also the El Clasico in the early 60s - Puskas, Di Stefano, Gento, Santamaria, Czibor, Koscic, Kubala, Suarez...
For 04/05, I have AC Milan against Manchester United UCL semi-finals: AC Milan Dida; Cafu, Nesta, Stam, Maldini; Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Kaka, Crespo Manchester United Howard; Brown, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Heinze; Keane, Scholes; Rooney, C. Ronaldo, Giggs; Van Nistlerooy And AC Milan vs Juventus in Serie A: AC Milan Dida; Cafu, Nesta, Stam, Maldini; Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf; Kaka; Shevchenko, Inzaghi Juventus Buffon; Pessotto, Thuram, Cannavaro, Zambrotta; Camorenesi, Appiah, Emerson, Nedved; Trezequet, Del Piero *bolded players are those who might be considered legendary or world class players
In terms of sheer name-power, I'm not sure if anyone can match that AC Milan team. Perhaps the Real and Barca teams from the 2010s, or maybe original or 2000s Galacticos teams? Just for fun, legendary or world class players on AC Milan 04/05: Dida Cafu Costacurta Maldini Nesta Stam Gattuso Pirlo Seedorf Kaka Rui Costa Shevchenko Crespo Inzaghi (14) Plus: Serginho Tomasson Kaladze Ambrosini
I don't know if it's already been mentioned here, but in the 2004 Euro, England had one of their best crop of players in practically all sectors of the field. The midfield consisted of Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham and Scholes. All ATG level. The defense featured Terry, Ashley Cole, Sol Campbell and Garry Neville. The offense was Rooney and Michael Owen. This team probably had more names than the 60's team that only had Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore and Gordon Banks.They played a Euro match against France with Zidane, Henry, Vieira, Makelele and Thuram (Desailly were on the bench)
Very good match, which Zidane won for France in the end (Beckham missed a penalty). Rooney was a revelation in that tournament. In terms of being stacked, England NT experts such as @PDG1978 can tell us how that 2004 team compares with the best England teams in history, including England 1966-1970.
Personally I think maybe 1966 is the best (mainly because of the best few players, and actually the World Cup team lacked a Greaves at the top of his game so was not completely optimal), but there isn't a clear option maybe (and some even earlier teams, who did very well in International games, might even come into it albeit it's hard to say - the mid to late 40s teams for example - what is maybe not completely clear is the extent to which England were less good in the early 50s and the extent to which teams like Hungary had taken things to a new level; somewhere around the mid 50s arguably England were again very good though). The team that played in Euro 96, and maybe the WC 98 team are perhaps IMO better than the 2004 team (it's been mentioned that England won that Tournoi in 97 of course too, though it was in essence a friendly/preparation tournament more than a highly prized one arguably anyway). I'm not sure I put the 2004 team clearly ahead of the best England teams of recent years now either actually. I think the 2004 team lacked a bit of flair and imagination (and perhaps pace and dribbling ability) as much as anything - the players best qualities were maybe a bit too similar, even though a number of them showed up well in the Ballon d'Or voting (perhaps it was a bit of a down period for top world players in general though?). If not 1966 then soon after maybe (but it's hard to make a claim they had a better team in 1968 when they didn't win the trophy compared to 1966 when they did for example, even though Martin Peters had arguably become better, Colin Bell had emerged etc). Jimmy Greaves seemed to suggest they actually had a better team in 1961 though himself, and rated Johnny Haynes very highly. I'm not saying everyone would see it the same though, and England did have quite a few star players (and in defence Ledley King was in a very good phase at that point, when fit to play, for example too). Combining the 1966 and 2004 teams I think maybe: Banks; Cohen, Campbell, Moore, Wilson/Cole (I'll leave that one open as I'm a bit unsure which way I'm going right now!); Ball (maybe Beckham was better at absolute peak but not necessarily at that moment), Gerrard, Lampard; B.Charlton; Rooney, Hurst (might have gone with Owen and Greaves a short time earlier) So maybe four players from 2004, or five, if putting Gerrard as primarily a more defensive CM (but with the best players being Moore, Bobby Charlton). Combining the 1996 and 2004 teams I think maybe: Seaman; G.Neville (96), Adams, Campbell (but I'd have picked his 1998 World Cup version over the 2004 Euros version - he didn't play Euro 96 though and was still developing in 1996 - I might think quite similar about Scholes even btw as it happens), Cole (because Le Saux was injured and missed Euro 96 and Pearce was getting on a bit by then, otherwise I'd have possibly gone for the 96 player); Beckham (but again only a 2004 selection because he wasn't in the Euro 96 squad maybe, because he had an excellent start to 1996/97, and arguably was better then than in mid 2004), Gerrard, Gascoigne, McManaman; Shearer, Rooney or Sheringham (leaving that open again because of how good Sheringham was a partner for Shearer) So again four or five players from 2004 perhaps.
Having said that though, I do understand how that game would get a mention on the thread, considering the players France still had in their team too (Pires played too I think didn't he for example). Maybe they were non-optimal a little themselves due to being past their peak, but I'd still had them as my guess to win Euro 2004 I remember before the tournament, Henry had been in some great form, Zidane was perhaps even at the height of his fame in terms of being seen as one of the very best ever by various people etc....
Yes, that's true. Great volley goal, but also in other ways a great game. Recently he said Arsenal was his favorite opponent
Definitely nothing against Primo Calcio or Isaias (on the contrary), but I would say that I wouldn't put 'two and two together' with regards to cut-off for world class players, from their posts. eg If Dida, Gattuso, Camorenasi, Inzaghi made the cut then for sure I'd feel Jack Charlton, Alan Ball, Martin Peters, Geoff Hurst would too (that's without even bringing Greaves into it), if you see what I'm saying.... I think Primo was working to a wider definition than Isaias in their respective posts though to be fair anyway....