PBP: Most Overrated Country in World Football and why?

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by Idolg1982, Apr 12, 2011.

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Most Overrated Country

Poll closed Apr 6, 2012.
  1. Russia

    0 vote(s)
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  2. England

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  3. USA

    0 vote(s)
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  4. Mexico

    0 vote(s)
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  5. Turkey

    0 vote(s)
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  6. Portugal

    0 vote(s)
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  7. Ireland

    0 vote(s)
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  8. Greece

    0 vote(s)
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  9. Italy

    0 vote(s)
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  10. Other

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  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    At the very least Paraguay cannot be dismissed so easily.
     
  2. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    You mean to tell me, which a straight face, that Peru, Chile and Colombia are on the same level as England, Spain and France?????? Paraguay I respect. But you must be out of your mind if you think that the 2) teams that he listed are on the same level for Europe and South America.
     
  3. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    I took the total points earned at a World Cup and divided it by the number of games each country played. Stats are from nationmaster.com, they only include 1930 to 2006. 2010 South America did well, but since these average include a decent number of games the jump won't be huge. If someone has a better dataset, please let me know.

    Paraguay 0.954545455
    Chile 0.8
    Peru 0.733333333
    Colombia 0.615384615

    France 1.235294118
    Spain 1.265306122
    Portugal 1.578947368
    England for some reason they did not have it

    Sweden 1.02173913
    Russia 1.108108108
    Serbia 1
    Poland 1.193548387
    Hungary 1.03125
    Czech 1

    So you can see, several countries that apparently "don't exist" do better than the South American 2) level on a points per game basis. That's not my main point though. The main point is that the 2) level from Europe is far better than that of 2). There are of course many other ways of analyzing the data, but it is obvious that Europe has had a better 2) level historically.
     
  4. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    Found Englands stats: 1.29090909.

    I must add though that the points data on that site is a little strange. I am not sure if they used 3 points for a win or 2, or some mixed thing. So if someone has a better dataset, I can repeat the analysis. In any case, the magnitudes might come out different, but the ordering should be similar.
     
  5. lajake

    lajake Member

    Dec 29, 2011
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you take the Big 2 from Europe Italy and Germany and the Big 2 from S. America Argentina and Brazil since 1970 Uruguay in 1970 and 2010 is the only S. American side to fnished in the top 4. Now take away Spain Holland France Portugal and England from Europe yo still have 7 times European team finished in the top 4 Poland 1974 and 1982 Belgium in 86 Sweden in 94 Bulgaria in 94 Croatia in 98 and Turkey in 2002.
     
  6. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    sorry to spam...I found a more "reliable" site (planetworldcup.com). Data from 1930-2010. I gave 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie.

    1 Brazil (19) 2.226804124
    2 Germany (17) 2.01010101
    3 Italy (17) 1.9125
    4 Argentina (15) 1.771428571
    5 Netherlands (9) 1.76744186
    6 Spain (13) 1.714285714
    7 Portugal (5) 1.695652174
    8 England (13) 1.644067797
    9 Denmark (4) 1.625
    10 Poland (7) 1.612903226
    11 Turkey (2) 1.6
    12 Senegal (1) 1.6
    13 France (13) 1.592592593
    14 Ghana (2) 1.555555556
    15 Russia ***(9) 1.540540541
    16 Croatia (3) 1.538461538
    17 Hungary (9) 1.5
    18 Uruguay (11) 1.404255319
    19 Ukraine (1) 1.4
    20 Romania (7) 1.380952381
    21 Austria (7) 1.379310345
    22 Serbia **(11) 1.372093023
    23 East Germany (1) 1.333333333
    24 Cuba (1) 1.333333333
    25 Sweden (11) 1.326086957
    26 Czech Republic *(9) 1.242424242
    27 Wales (1) 1.2
    28 Côte d'Ivoire (2) 1.166666667
    29 Paraguay (8) 1.148148148
    30 Chile (8) 1.137931034

    Parenthesis show how many World Cups they participated in, so I would not read too much into the ones with 1 or 2 because those are not good sample sizes (Cuba??). But anyway, the best South American 2) level team comes in way after many European teams. However, the two top South American teams, as everybody knows, are terrific. So for me, at the top, South America and Europe do equally well. Then in the middle, Europe is stronger and much deeper. Then at the bottom, Europe is weaker again due to small shitty teams. And of course, these are stats averaged over all of history and don't necessarily represent what is going on right now.
     
  7. cloak

    cloak Member

    Aug 25, 2010
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    or just ban lajake because not even his home board likes him.
     
  8. lajake

    lajake Member

    Dec 29, 2011
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your wife sure likes me.
     
  9. knowdiggity

    knowdiggity New Member

    Jan 27, 2012
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    How is USA overrated? If so...who is rating us highly?
     
  10. ITALIA1982

    ITALIA1982 Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    AC Milan
    So according to this Uruguay is #18 ???
    and Portugal is #7 ???

    Wow
     
  11. ITALIA1982

    ITALIA1982 Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    AC Milan
    This is the proper ranking

    1. Brazil
    2. Italy
    3. Germany
    4. Argentina
    5. Uruguay
    6. France
    7. England
    8. Spain
    9. Holland

    and the rest I do not care...
     
  12. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    I'd say that from 2009 to mid. 2011, Chile would have comfortably been in the 'top 10 UEFA sides' you're talking about.

    Even today -- with no Marcelo Bielsa, a different tactical approach, and persistent problems (on and off the field) -- Chile would confidently hold its own against most European sides, especially mid-tier teams like the four you mentioned above.
     
  13. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    100% agree with this ranking. Big LOL at Portugal being ranked ahead of Uruguay, yeah right...Uruguay has more semifinals and above performances in the WC than Portugal has WC appearances.

    Yes, Chile would rank around fifth or sixth if in UEFA.
     
  14. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    Uruguay is #18 with respect to this particular statistic. How one rates them overall is another question, obviously their cup wins raise their real ranking. My point with theses statistics was to show that there are many non-top European teams that do better on average than the South American 2) level teams that someone listed. I wasn't even focusing on Uruguay because they were put in the 1) level.

    But really, you don't need any data to realize that putting England/France/Spain/Portugal at the same level as Peru/Paraguay/Chile/Colombia is ridiculous. Sweden even has a better record than those countries.

    Lol, so what? Many countries have fielded good teams from time to time.
     
  15. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    Finally had some time to do this.

    England/Spain/France/Portugal # of semifinals reached by CONMEBOL's 2nd tier divided by # of WC finals they've taken part in:
    0.25 (i.e. 1 in every 4 times)

    Chile/Paraguay/Ecuador/Colombia # of semifinals reached by CONMEBOL's 2nd tier divided by # of WC finals they've taken part in:
    0.045 (i.e. 1 in every 22 times)

    In summary:
    Big gap in quality, using your own criterion

    Convinced???
     
  16. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    I was not defending Chile's historical record, which is quite average and nothing special. My point was simply a counter-argument stating that Chile has been every bit as competitive as its mid-tier European counterparts in recent years, and in some cases, significantly better. That's all.

    In any case, it's not too difficult for European teams to out-perform South Americans when UEFA has 53 member associations and CONMEBOL has 10.
     
  17. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Cagalhao
    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    well in the last world cup, didnt new zealand do better than italy

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHX6NYM7vTo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHX6NYM7vTo[/ame]
     
  18. wowgames

    wowgames New Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    I'd say that from 2009 to mid. 2011, Chile would have comfortably been in the 'top 10 UEFA sides' you're talking about.You may try to Buy WOW Gold online.
     
  19. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    You don't have to be rated highly to be overrated. Just rating the USA ahead of, say, Mexico would make them overrated IMO.
     
  20. ivantuga2

    ivantuga2 Member

    Sep 28, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    What evidence that half-assed ranking has, made by a person that didn't even bother to understand the basis of snahdog's research and probably just doesn't like seeing Portugal so up high and can't comprehend Uruguay being so low? What that personal preference is based on? :rolleyes:

    Fixed. Do your research first.

    You obviously can't get your head around the fact that that ranking is based on total points gained divided by number of games, NOT finishes and titles. ;) You forget that Uruguay has had lots of poor World Cups and that's the reason it's not ranked very high there. For the record, from Wikipedia:

    Uruguay - 18W-12D-17L (46,81% of total points)
    Portugal - 12W-3D-8L (56,52% of total points)

    See now?
     
  21. Lord Ponsonby

    Lord Ponsonby New Member

    Dec 25, 2011
    Argentina 2 world cups = Uruguay 2 world cups
    Argentina 2 olympics (U-23) < Uruguay 2 olympics (world championships FIFA)
    Argentina 1 confederations cup < Uruguay 1 (the only one) mini world cup
    Argentina 14 copas america < Uruguay 15 copas america

    Conclusion: Argentina < Uruguay

    Another statistics: I) Uruguay and Argentina played 12 finals between them: 10-times the champion was Uruguay (8 copas america and 2 world championships) and only 2-times the champion was Argentina (2 copa america). II) Uruguay has been 5-times wc semifinalist, 1930, 1950, 1954, 1970 and 2010, while Argentina has been only 4-times wc semifinalist, 1930, 1978, 1986 and 1990.

    So...

    1. Brazil
    2. Italy
    3. Germany
    4. Uruguay
    5. Argentina
    6. France
    7. England
    8. Spain
    9. Holland
    ...
     
  22. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    LOL, okay so Uruguay has reached the semifinals or finals of the WC as many times as Portugal has reached the WCs...that just means how much better Uruguay is. The rest of your post is meaningless to me, or anyone else with a sense of footballing history.
     
  23. lajake

    lajake Member

    Dec 29, 2011
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Out of the last 6 World Cups this last one is the only one I remember Uruguay finishing better than Portugal. 2002 was the only WC if I remember right in the last 6 or 7 Portugal has qualified for the did not make it to the knockout round.
     
  24. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You might want to look these things up in future. Portugal's overall WC record is pretty dismal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_national_football_team
     
  25. snahdog

    snahdog Member

    Mar 31, 2006
    Atlanta
    When they make it to the Finals (i.e. past the qualification), they are not dismal. Though, yes, they have failed to qualify quite often.

    But Uruguay has failed to even qualify for the World Cup 6(!) times, while Argentina only missed the party once (not counting withdrawing or deciding not to participate). So Uruguay is a lot less consistent and has long periods of low performance where they lose to teams like Australia.
     

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