The reason I say ManU aren't complete is because of depth. But also I'm not convinced of thier backline yet. Wes Brown, the Neville bros, and Mikael Silvestre couldn't even make it onto the bench at Milan. And Rio and O'Shea wouldn't be starters. I think Milan's second string backline is better than ManU's (Pancaro, Costacurta, Laursen, Simic)
hahaha Nevilles are a joke. beckham's best man. that is a joke. If Sylvestre can put behind his injuries, he is solid. Rio was a huge wa$te of ca$h. he has not produced any kind of consistent form yet. Wes Brown is the next darren anderton. wait and see. O'Shea is special . ya, wow did Roque ever get lit up! and how does reid expect a 150 lb brazillian to play CB in EPL? he will get tossed around too much
Are we speaking about the most complete or the best team? This is Real Madrid record in the last years in Cl: 1998- Champion 1999- quarterfinalist 2000- champion 2001- semifinalist 2002- champion 2003- semifinalist Nobody have these numbers. But Real Madrid isn't a complete team, they are too weak in defense. Ok. It's like a runner that have a great resistance, he has a good sprint but other runners have much better sprint. Normally the runner with great resistance win all the races, because when the others players change the speed, he is too many meters ahead. Well, but the other runners are more COMPLETE because they are good in resistence and in speed. . OK. Yes, RM weakest part is the defense but it don't means that RM defenders are bad. As someone as said before Roberto Carlos, Salgado and Helguera are great players in theirs positions, and Pavon could became a very good player. I think that Roberto Carlos is the best player in the world in his position. He always is in the top 10-20 in the votings of FIFA world player, i think that the last year was in the Top 5. It is very good for a defender. Even with Nesta the team would have problems in defense. It's the philosophy of play of the team and they won't change it. They have won more throphies than anyone and they usually make a great soccer to watch. Yeah, but they aren't completes. ; ) Well, they can have all !!! If i was a neutral supporter, i would prefer to watch a game of a team that i know that usually score many goals and very good plays; that a game of a team with preference for the defense, few goals and less plays of quality. I have saw too many defensive games in World cups and European NT cups, and are very good to sleep if your team isn't in the game, well ..... even with your team in the game. But those are my preferences, other people could think totally diferent. The big problem for Real Madrid this year could be that they haven't enought players for centerback and defense midfielder positions, in case of injuries.
Real Madrid has not the strongest defense in the world,but it is funny how some people say Real has no chance of winning CL because of his bad defense. It is even funnier when that people say Real being defeated by Juve proves that point.I guess it means Figo had no chance of scoring that penalti,or that Ronaldo's and Makelele's injuries were not important in that match. Real Madrid has ever had defensive problems and they will ever have them.It is not that way because has Real Madrid always have had bad defenders,but because Real Madrid have always had a offensive style of play. Well,I think Real Madrid is the main favorite for winning the CL this year.People saying that Juve,Milan,Bayern or even Manchester are stronger teams than Real Madrid is ok. But to say Real has no chance of winning it is *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#. Heck,Real Madrid won CL in 2000.Their CB were Ivan Campo and Karanka.Enough said.
What? This is not the "Madrid inferiority complex thread". No one has said Madrid has no chance to win the CL - that's just asinine. Most top seeds have a chance to win. Even Arsenal have a "chance" The point, however, is that Real will have to win DESPITE their defense. Also, they lack a true ball winning defensive midfielder this year, since Cambiasso is not as good as Makelele. You may recall the second leg against Juve as proof of that. I actually think that Real's chances this year are worse, because there is only one group stage, and therefore clean sheets become much more important. Real hasn't held an opponent scoreless at home in the CL in about 2 years. (!!!!) Away goals can become crucial in the CL, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost again to an Italian team. Why? Because their defense isn't that good. Will they outscore some teams like they just did to Marseille? Sure. But when confronted with a team of similar offensive firepower, but better defense, (like Milan or Juve) they will struggle, because they are less complete than those teams. That's the only point of this thread.
I think people are mixing things up. Yes Madrid have recently won 3 CL's but that doesn't make them a complete team. The most complete team usually doesn't win. They have an above average defense, but they play w/ an attacking style so that is expected. For most complete team i think it is one of the Northern Italian trio of Milan, Juve, or Inter. Also someone mention that Madrid will struggle against a team like Juve or Milan. Someone with a strong defense and similar offensive firepower. That is absurd. No one in the world has a similar firepower to Madrid. No team can match the pairing of Ronaldo and Raul. Also you have a playmaker, Zidane, that no one can match. The closest you can come is Nedved. Then Figo and Becks in the midfield. Also you have two defenders, R. Carlos and Salgado who push up and can set up goals. Just watch the Marseille-Madrid game. Carlos had a hand in all four goals.
How absurd is it? If Milan played their first 11 in the game in Madrid last year, Real might not have made it past the second group stage. Real scraped through the second stage, thanks to Ancelotti's player rotation and a late, late goal against Dortmund. One thing to like about Madrid: when was the last time Roberto Carlos was injured?
The most complete side in football just now is unquestionably Juventus. Gigi Buffon between the sticks is as reliable a keeper as you'll find, probably the best in the world too. Montero, Thuram and Legrottaglie, backed up by the ever-young Ciro Ferrera and the consistent Mark Iuliano provide an almost unpenetrable central defensive combination. Zambrotta, Birindelli, Tudor, Pessotto are all consistent and good professionals as full backs, and also able to move into midfield. Stephen Appiah in defensive midfield has been a revelation this year, Tacchinardi alongside him has been a mainstay since he was young. Davids is still in there, and Camoranesi provides pace from the flanks. Up front - 4 class strikers, Miccoli, Del Piero, Di Vaio and the goal machine Trezeguet will never fall short in finding the net. And just but not least? The Czech genius Pavel Nedved provides the crucial playmaker role, linking defence to attack, getting behind the defences making killer passes, long range shots, and supreme work rate. That to me, is the most complete side around right now
I think that Milan won almost all the games 1-0 the last year in the champions league, some of them without deserve to win, like the semifinal against the Ajax in Milan when they won by a goal in the last minutes, when Ajax had played better. The answer about Roberto Carlos is easy, Never. I don't remember Roberto Carlos injured since he is in Madrid. Maybe 4 years ago, but i thinkg that he didn't lose any game. He is a super-Athlete. Posted by nicephoras ---------------------------- This is not the "Madrid inferiority complex thread". No one has said Madrid has no chance to win the CL - that's just asinine. Most top seeds have a chance to win. Even Arsenal have a "chance" Even Juventus or Milan. We will see if the last year was only casuallity. I must remember that in the last 5 years the italians teams has played horrible in the CL, falling in the first rounds ...... Well, it's true, they always play horrible, i wanted to say "playing horrible and not winning". I don't know what was making the italian teams with its great defenses and complete teams when RM , Manchester or Bayern was winning the CL in the last 6 years. The point, however, is that Real will have to win DESPITE their defense. Also, they lack a true ball winning defensive midfielder this year, since Cambiasso is not as good as Makelele. You may recall the second leg against Juve as proof of that. I actually think that Real's chances this year are worse, because there is only one group stage, and therefore clean sheets become much more important. Real hasn't held an opponent scoreless at home in the CL in about 2 years. (!!!!) Away goals can become crucial in the CL, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost again to an Italian team. Why? Because their defense isn't that good. Yes, you are right. The problems is that Real Madrid has the bad habit of score at least one goal in all its games. If the team hasn't ploblem with the injuries, the goal factor will be in the Real Madrid side. But if Raul, Ronaldo, Zidane and Makelele(Beckham? Cambiasso?) are injuried like happened the last year against the Juventus. Maybe the Juventus could have one chance. Will they outscore some teams like they just did to Marseille? Sure. But when confronted with a team of similar offensive firepower, but better defense, (like Milan or Juve) they will struggle, because they are less complete than those teams. That's the only point of this thread. The point of this thread should be that the most complete team must be the team whose combination between players and style of play give the best results. And if you analyze the last years that team is Real Madrid. But if you want that the most complete team is a team that has a good average in all the positions with the result of 0 champions leagues in the last years, the result will be Juventus. My conclusion is, if the last one is the definition of a complete team, i don't want to have a complete team.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware this was the "Real Madrid rules" thread. Real is a good team. But unless I'm mistaken, they did NOT win the CL last year. In fact, they barely scraped through the second group phase. If Milan had fielded their starting 11, Real may not have even made it past that stage. "No one has comparable firepower to Real Madrid." Uh, what? Milan is certainly comparable - Pirlo, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Rivaldo, Sheva, Pippo, Kaka, Serginho - I wasn't aware they were bad offensive players. Inter is loaded this year, especially now that they have wingers: they just obliterated Arsenal at Highbury without Vieri or Recoba. Ouch. Is Real better than them up front - sure, somewhat. But Milan's defense is light years ahead of Real's. As is Juve's, and Inter's. (Who's isn't?) Your starting CB in a CL game this year was playing for Leeds Utd. on a loan deal last year. Wow, what depth! For the last time, no one is arguing Real is a bad team. They're not. They're wonderful going forward. But, and this is a big but, their defense is porous. So when they're confronted with a team they can't simply outscore, they're in trouble. Which is what happened against Milan and Juve - ironically the two teams that were CL finalists. P.S. The reason all the "complete" teams seem to be Italian is that - shock! - they're the ones who did well last year. I certainly wouldn't call Lazio a complete team, even though I'm a fan and they're Italian. P.P.S. To the poster who said Real has a habit of scoring in all their games - not quite true....... I seem to recall them netting a goose egg against Milan
In the mid 90's Juve were the team to beat. names alone mean nothing. They sound good on paper...in reality they aren't complete at all. If the opposong team is a good offensive one and so happen to take the lead Juve just melt and die. There's nothing complete in that. Man U are the devil incarnate for Juve and constantly exploit this so called complete team when they play. In terms of names on a pitch and so called reputations then you can't look past Milan...but..winning the CL once in the past 5yrs and performing atrociously for two years prior again tells you that these reputations on a pitch don't mean much at all. When Real and Man U are on fire they clearly have the best teams because they devestate the opposition and roast them so completely that there can be no questions over dominance..italian teams are not renowned for this ever snce Juve used to do it in the mid 90's when they were unquestionably the most complete team. The much touted italian defenses are no longer impenetrable like they were in former years and this take alot away from them...names on a piece of paper suggest italian teams should just steam roll thru europe every year but team unity and chemistry overrules any such paper stats..and that's why man u and real can easily be put on par with being as complete as any of the italian teams. It can be painful to watch a team of so called superstars not gelling like you often find at clubs like barca and inter and for all the reputation they carry it don't mean d*** on a pitch. For all of both Man U's and Real's weaknesses in defence there is an equal problem for Italian teams when they are disrupted tactically...especially by speedy probing teams...only Milan have the ability to recover from being goals down in the way that would say if there is a 2goal defecit they still could come back...Juve's slow lumbering defence and staid midfield get exploited to hell when they have to push up and try pull goals back..and as for Cuper's Inter they crash like Windows in the face of adversity....these are the factors that blow any 'elite teamsheet' out of the water. D.S
the reason Man U and Madrid are so good is mentality, not players. Even if they don't stack up on paper they're still great sides. That being said Milan and Juventus handed everyone their asses last year and will do so again this year.
no italian team can or have 'handed man u their ass' since the late 90's when man u got schooled by juve..since then man u are easily the foil/equal to italian football's style.
Re: I'm sorry, One of the big defenses of the italian soccer, and i'm speaking in general terms, is the results. But we have seen in the last years and other times, that with a soccer more fun to play and to watch you can have the same or better results. And i must say that i liked very much the play of Milan in the begining of the last season, but after two bad results they returned to a more conservative style of play, because they wasn't really believing in what they was doing.
I meant Costacurta when I was referring to a 37 year old… You do realize Maldini is left-footed. I know Maldini played LB v. Ajax, but it was Costacurta who usually deputized Kaladze last season. Just wondering, why didn’t they play Pancaro if they signed him as a back-up LB? I just think Chelsea now have the strongest group of players in the world. If that means titles is still to be seen. We can compare them position by position if you wish. BTW, Maldini is a true all-time great, as well as one of the best players at his position at the moment.
What are you talking about "I wasn't aware this was a Real Madrid rules thread." No one is saying Madrid are the most complete team and if they do they are stupid. Even as a Madrid fan I can say that. Although because of their firepower they could easily be the best team in the world. Also what is up w/ nicephoras. How can you think Rivaldo, Rui Costa, Sheva, Inzaghi, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, and Serginho is comparable to Becks, Figo, Zidane, Raul, and Ronaldo??? There is no comparable attack in the world. Don't misunderstand I'm not saying that Milan's offense sucks, it is amazing, but is not comparable to Madrid. As I posted earlier the most complete team is probably one of the Northern Italian trio.
I'd agree with you on that point but i was talking about the team not the squad, which i presumed the thread to be about, but if it is about the squad then you are right about the weakness being depth, Milan and Chelsea have to be the top two? Utd and Real are possibly the weakest depth-wise out of all the major European teams.
France NT is certainly the most complete team in the world. France have 6 players: Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Pires, who are simply the best in the world at their position. 4 players who acan easely be considered as one of the 5 or 10 best in the world at their position: Lizarazu, Trezeguet, Desailly, Sylvestre (or Gallas or Mexes). 1 goalkeeper who, whatever its club's trouble, has always been great with his NT: Barthez. A very solid bench: Gallas, Mexes, Sagnol, Dacourt, Wiltord, Cissé, etc ... + several players who can still be used in NT: Candela, Anelka, Lamouchi, Robert, etc ...