Im hearing little bits about there being trouble in Moscow with Neo Nazi Russian supporters trying to provoke Irish fans into riots and when they didnt respond, the Russians just kicked the sh1t out of them and the police stood by and watched. Is this true?
afraid so. a dutch guy also got a bit of a hammering 'cause he happened to be near the irish. according to reports there was around 100 russians armed with knives, bars and bottles. fortunately no one was seriously hurt. disgusted about the moscow police but it seems typical from what i've read about them in the past. there are a number of reports that the irish fans had to bribe the police because they didn't carry their passports with them at all time - although they were warned beforehand by the irish embassy. the police are paid absolute pittance over there and won't risk personal injury because of it. it's almost accepted that they supplement their wage from bribes over parking tickets, fines and the like
Yeah Ive been to Moscow a few times and it is true. You need to have your passport with you all the time. Lucky enough I had Russian people bringing me around so any time we were stopped I just kept my mouth shut. I was told to not say a word and never get out of the car if we were stopped. We were stopped once and the policeman jsut kept saying things to me but I didnt say a word. Eventually he went away after the guy with me argued with him in Russian for a while. I was going to go out to moscow for the game but couldnt make it. Kind of glad now, after the result and the news that there was trouble.
Are there actually Neo-Nazi's in Russia? Given 20th century history, that's pretty hard to believe. Given how stupid people can be, it gets a lot more plausible. Thanks if anyone can clarify.
exactly, it's a term that get's thrown around in different ways. I'd disagree with it's use but it's not incorrect in the sense of being used like others do. The sad this is that Russia wants to host Euro 2010 & things like this don't help. The main problem isn't the police so much as the hooligans. Getting the police to help deal with the problem is very important. But the problem would still be there to some extent even if the police were crakin' down.
My Thoughts ... I got there with the girlfirend on Saturday morning , went to the hotel for a snooze and then went to Red Square for a look around ...so far no trouble. Met with other irish fans near the Kremlin and heard many stories of the previous nights where , Russian skinhead types were looking to fight anything any body Western, common use of blades knives and other thugs implements ...Have also heard that SHamrock Rovers Supporters were met with the same types in Sweden . i reckon it's an extension of this Combat 18 that wrecked Lansdowne in 95 ...has been reported in other papers that this is the case. I wil never go back there anyway. The cops and all militia were rude to the extent of being completely obnoxious . I felt threatened everywhere I went and was ripped off everywhere I went. After the game I thought we were going to be set on by the local mobs as we were hearded out onto the street almost 2 hours after the game was over ....disgraceful treatment , felt like an animal! No taxis , no buses , just everyone thrown out onto an highway...rotten treatment. As for Russia getting to host something ....joke ...no way , the place is a complete kip , food crap, beer over priced , locals threatening and menacing . all looking for a way to bribe you, rip you off or just outright injure you ....If this is their attitude to outsiders, then it will be a very long time before Russia is a place worth a visit for any reason I mean ...just how hard was it to get a visa for this hole , does anyone remember ...they have some cheek , one would swear that we owed them a living Never Again will I go to that complete KIP. I hope we give their team a good hammering in Lansdowne Road. The team owes that to the fans that travelled after the treatment we received. Barna Bee
I posted some articles in this thread. Thanks for the personal reports, much more detailed than what the papers were saying. From everything I've heard they don't know how to contain and react to crowd trouble. Russian police haven't had to deal with this for decades like in other areas. Throughout Europe you'll "neo-Nazis" despite history as Dr. Wankler said. I don't understand it either. Combat 18 and Blood and Honour seem to have groups everywhere. Hopefully there won't be too many problems in the return leg.
BB, thought I'd give you my thoughts seeing as we seem to have been in a similar boat, i.e. I was travelling with my girlfiend. Arrived early on Friday morning, very unhelpful hotel staff when we had a query with our reservation, however this was offset by the fact that they did allow us to check in to our room at 7am (Never been to a hotel that would have allowed that before). Never heard any stories of trouble until on the way to the game and we were sat behind the guy who had been smacked round the head with an iron bar and dragged out of town and robbed of all his possessions...lucky to be alive i'd say. However, we never felt any intimidation on the way to the stadium (god knows I wouldnt have heard the end of it, if the missus had felt at risk), during the match or even on the way back. Yes we were held in the stadium for over an hour after the game had ended but this was the same for the Russians as each stand is cleared one at a time (I guess to allow the crowd to dispurse outside). There was a complete guard of army from the stadium right up to the buses with an armed person (seem like young boys in some cases!!) at what seemed like 5 yard intervals. I never felt in danger of being attacked at any stage. We then tried to get on one of the supporters buses but to no avail (747 were being adamant that only people who booked with them could get on...fair enough.) Right outside the coach park a couple of traffic police were flagging taxis for Irish fans who were queuing up, in the taxi within about 10 minutes and back at the hotel a further 20 minutes later. we didn't venture too far that night as knackered and cheesed off with the result. As for getting the Visa, it wasn't that bad we just used Asla.co.uk as recommended by yourself (I guess you did all the ground work!!), paid them and had all documentation within about 10 days. I don't want to trivialise the events that have happened and had I seen or been involved in the incidents at first hand Im sure my views would be different. However, I didnt, and I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed visiting the various sights at Red Square, Kremlin etc which were an experience. There is no doubt that in general the Russians were not that friendly and would need to change there attitudes towards visitors, customer services etc. if they want to hold events such as Euro2010. In summary, bar the result I enjoyed the trip, Im not saying its top of my list of venues to revisit but I thought it was worth comparing what on the face of things seemed like identical trips but left completely different impressions.
Moscow experience I spent a cuple of days in moscow and i found the people & police rude obnoxious and unhelpful. Had great craic with reguliar lads that travel with us but we never ventured far from our hotel because we did'nt feel safe. One old guy that travels with us was mugged on the first night and another guy was mugged of all his cloths and the police fined him for indecent exposure. Alot of lads were given hassle over there visa's by emigration due to admin problems caused by the russian embassey in dublin. Moscow a total kip worst city i have visited on my travels in supporting the irish team
My cousins who went over, were caught in the middle of a few build-ups outside of their hotel. It seems to me that those who didn't travel with the package tours were the ones who faced the most hardship. The police were also to blame as they never did much untill it was obvious that the Irish were hurt, which was the case with my cousins. I also heard of a lot of robbery going on , especially to those that wore the green out in public when seeing the sights in Moscow. I my self was unlucky enough to travel there two years ago for a few games against their local hockey clubs in some warm up charity matches....we ended up with our hotel rooms being looted of all our equipment and our team bus being smashed to pieces......next to the Dutch , the Russians are the worst in fan violence...overall the Russians are the worst as most of Holland is pretty passive.
JRedknapp,you must be kidding about the Dutch! They're our best mates in the fans' table. Remember 88,90,94 and the recent 2002 qualifiers. Superb fans and we always have a great time with them. There were a few of them in our hotel in Moscow who'd travelled over (with a Dublin bloke) to support us, as they did in Japan. They have hooligan problems at club level, but it doesn't seem to affect the national team support. You cannot possibly equate them with the nazi scum who attacked our fans in Russia!!
Not question about what your are saying.... however I've been to a few local matches , Ajax vs Utrecht and a few other Utrecht matches and those were some hairy situations.... When it comes to Int. matches most of the dutch fans are family members out "star gazing" which usually makes for a nice atmosphere, but when it's club action then it's another story all together.... I can recall an incident in last years feyenoord NAC match I was at ...the fans were angry with the poor keeping of NAC so they started throughing vodka bottles at the keeper....I could go on about these type incidents...and I'm sure we could apply these sitations to any global league...but the Dutch are notorious for being a bit too rowdy.
Huge difference between club supporters and the Oranje. Just ask AFCA. Hopefully everyone's learned their lesson about wondering around Red Square decked from head to toe in green and waving tricolours. I'm sure they'll be some looking for revenge in the return leg. Regardless of how many Russians travel...
no chance of trouble in Dublin Brian ....Irish fans don't cause trouble !! As well as that everyone who travels understands that those who attacked the irish had nothing to do with football...as was mentioned already, they were skinheads ....we might as well have been Telly Tubbies On Tour and they would have attacked us . Also , please note that Red Square in all was wonderful. Any trouble happened away from this area ....namely at a McDonalds and outside a hotel. Wankers like this will NEVER stop me or any other paddy showing our Irishness abroad .....however hard you find this to understand .
Despite what JRedknapp has implied, I find it hard to imagine any trouble occuring on the return leg in Dublin. The Russian fans who have the money to travel over here for the match just are not the same ones who were kicking up trouble in Moscow. If tehre are any Irish fans looking for a dustup (which I hope there aren't), they'll probably find few, if any takers.
Barna Bee, you're right but from what I've heard there will be at least a few looking for revenge. Of course that could be all talk... It won't matter whether they are hools (the Russians) or not. The Irish attacked in Moscow weren't and one who was seriously hurt was in his fifties! Now for some confusing photos.
Heard an interesting story that much of the organising, prompting and so forth was arranging by the National Front from UK via the 'net. Some of the Russians were seen to have LVF and UFF insignias and 'No Surrender' chants were also heard. Don't know if this is the case, but passing it on FWIW.
This is my first post here. I come from "Ihadmacedonia.com." I am Japanese girl who loves Ireland team and actually I followed the Ireland team from Izumo, Chiba and Seoul during the World Cup and this time I went to Moscow by myself only to watch the match. I was wearing the Galway GAA jersey during the World Cup and in Moscow because I used to live in Galway. I just would like to say Irish supporers are great, friendly and you have a great atmosphere when you support the team in and out of the stadium!! I am really moved and impressed. And also I was very surprised at the players who are really friendly! After the Germany game, I was in the team hotel and the players and supporters were singing together till the morning. It was unforgettable moment! In Seoul the same thing have happened! Now, I worry about some people who got injured in Moscow.... I am very sorry.... I heard it was not serious, but I hope it won't happen to anyone at all... Maybe I'm going to Georgia next year to watch the match again. I hope I will see you there. I will "stand up for the Boys In Green!"
That's the reaction our international games should get. Fans all over the word falling for our team and the supporters, be it in Holland, Germany, Estonia, USA or Japan. That's the goodwill we have being spreading for years and we have gotten it back in bucketloads! The Moscow incidents had nothing to do with soccer, nor the Irish fans for that matter, it's an unfortunate blip which has attached itself to us by the actions of mindless (local) thugs. Cheers maiko99, the good, trouble-free times supporting Ireland will roll again.
It could have been Russia V Ireland in any sport, from what I could tell they had little to nothing to do with football and I doubt there will be any revenege attacks or anything even like it when they come here, the only revenge we owe the Russians is a win in the return leg, or at least we can hope so.