More steps on the road to a national draft

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by spejic, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  2. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if that writer's right, that'll certainly take some starch out of the chickenhawks who are between the ages of 18 and 25.
     
  3. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    He should look at the other deployment's more closely and also why the Volunteer military has caused these problems to begin with.
     
  4. furie

    furie Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    Long Island, NY
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    time to force convicted felons into the armed forces again.
     
  5. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The military gods created penal battalions for that reason.
     
  6. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force

    What's notable about this is that for once, it's not some congressman from a mostly minority district suggesting a draft as a means to make a point about how the troops doing most of the fighting and dying are disproportionately from low-income and minority groups.
     
  7. flanoverseas

    flanoverseas New Member

    Mar 2, 2002
    Xandria
    Because we shouldn't fvcking be there in the first place?!?!?!?!
     
  8. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    There's not going to be a draft. Number one, because we don't need one and number two, because our volunteer army is a hundred times more capable and willing. There is no military officer around today that wants to baby sit unmotivated individuals. A larger army is not a better army.
     
  9. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of his reasoning is WAY off. He claims that we need to look at the deployments of US forces in "Saudi Arabia, Germany, Britain, Italy, Japan, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and elsewhere around the globe." and claims that it's "a huge overextension." This is false.

    Another point he tries to make... "Since the invasion of Iraq there have been more military casualties than in all the years since the end of the Viet Nam war combined." What exactly constitutes a casualty to him? Is it simply deaths, or does it include injuries. If it's deaths then he's wrong again, if it's deaths and injuries then he's got a point.

    I take something from alternet about as seriously as I take something from newsmax.
     
  10. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    I have my doubts about whether a volunteer force of teenage Armies of One is truly motivated and I am concerned that the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder is more likely to die in combat, I also can't take the "draft levels the playing field" argument seriously. What's going to stop, say a rich New England kid avoid being shipped off by earning Gentleman's C's and using his father's connection to join a cushy National Guard unit?
     
  11. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
    Why can't he really say what it is he wants to do??? I'll fix his quote for him:

     
  12. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    The people of the US, for the most part, will raise hell if this gets even close to happening. It would be political suicide for any President to approve such a measure, especially if it is tied to a very controversial war...which it is.
     
  13. TheWakeUpBomb

    TheWakeUpBomb Member

    Mar 2, 2000
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Of course, the notion that the troops doing most of the fighting and dying are disproportionately from minority groups is completely false.
     
  14. USAsoccer

    USAsoccer Member

    Jul 15, 1999
    Tampa, Florida
    With respect to your opinion, this is just an ignorant comment. Might I suggest that you assauge your doubts by paying a visit to Fort Stewart, Georgia, home of the Army's 3d Infantry Division (Mechanized), and test your belief that the volunteer Army is an unmotivated force. Having spent 6 years in that unit, I think you will find, and may be greatly surprised to learn, how dedicated, motivated, and driven for excellence our young enlisted troops and young non-commissioned officers are. I also think you will be surprised to learn that it is a sense of patriotism and love of country that serves as a leading factor (but not the only factor) in motivating these great young Americans to join the volunteer force.
     
  15. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago

    I don't doubt this at all. All of the people I know in the military, or recently discharged from the military are/were incredibly dedicated to whatever mission was assigned to them.

    A draft would be political suicide for Bush. Having said that, I could support one if Jenna and Barbara are the first ones patrolling the streets of Tikrit. What are the chances that will happen?
     
  16. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    I believe casualties include both deaths and injuries.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Technically, yes, but in this war, for whatever reason, the media and the gvt. are always using "casualties" to mean deaths. When you hear Senor say there were 3 casualties, he means 3 soldiers died. When you read of 68 casualties in Basra today, 68 people died.
     
  18. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Damn liberal media.
     
  19. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of months or so ago NPR reported on the number of serious non-fatal casualties in Iraq. At the time it was around 9,000. The reporter had a really hard time getting anybody to cough up the data.

    http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1587762
     
  20. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    I realize I am ignorant when it comes to the psychology of soldiers. I should have been clearer - I don't know if a drafted army would by any less motivated than a volunteer army if the security of the country was really at stake.
     
  21. USAsoccer

    USAsoccer Member

    Jul 15, 1999
    Tampa, Florida
    No worries there, I just wanted to give you my perspective.

    However, you do raise an interesting question about a draft under the premise of the security of the nation being at stake.

    There are those of us in uniform who vehemently believe that the security of the nation IS at stake right now, and that the Iraqi conflict is a necessary aspect of the war on terror. Others strongly disagree (and have an increasing tendency to be those who would not know how to lace a boot, let alone know how to wear this uniform properly), preferring to see the conflict in terms of a law enforcement mechanism rather than an actual military conflict. That is an entirely separate debate unrelated to this thread.

    However, in that light, it is my humble opinion that an all volunteer force would be a far more effective fighting force than a drafted Army of individuals of dubious motivations. In the end, the volunteer Army consists of individuals who asked for the Army rather than the Army asking for you! I would rather lead people who WANT to be here, rather than a group of guys who are forced to be in uniform. The people doing the heavy lifting in Iraq beleive in the mission. The overwhelming majority of people complaining about that mission have never worn a uniform. The last thing I would want is to lead a bunch of Superdave's into battle.
     
  22. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you heavily overestimate the enthusiasm for this job.

    Anecdotal evidence isn't strong, I know, but I personally know a number of people "in the ********" who don't know why they are there. Frankly, they don't want to be there. A number of USAF officers where I work also think Iraq is a boondoggle. A good number of them are "company men", but not all.

    I come from a family with military history (grandfather fought in the Pacific in WWII, father won an appointment to West Point, I won a AFROTC scholarship, and currently work for a defense contractor), and the only reason I didn't sign up for Afghanistan is my fiance would've died from fright/stress - and even then I gave it serious consideration. Right now, with this Iraq mess going on, you could probably never convince me to sign up.
     
  23. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    [​IMG]
     
  24. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    True, that war back in the 1940s was an utter failure for the United States.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USASoccer...but we don't have enough volunteers right now. Is that problem fixable?

    BTW, who in their right mind thought regime change in Iraq was about law enforcement??? That paragraph was bizarre and confusing.
     

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