More Reasonableness that the Left Doesn't Understand

I started a thread in the BS politics forum, a poll, whether people believe in the real adult universe, or the "alternate" universe.

It was a thread that was closed.

The fact is, that the leftie nutjobs that populate to board over there are simply incapable of seeing how VDH completely captures their warped and moronic sensibility in under 1000 words.

That's all it takes to nail them, to the wall.

 

Harry Reid has completely lost it.

So tell us Harry. How has it worked the last 216 years?

 

(a) This liberal will admit that the economy is doing better than a lot of people want to believe, although he also realizes that the decrease in the median income makes it clear who has benefitted the most.

(b) VDH has forgotten about the heat wave in Chicago a few years ago in which 700+ people most certainly "roasted and died" in their apartments. (Interesting fact: by executive order, Clinton changed the energy effeciency standards for air conditioners. Had those standards been in effect before the Chicago heat wave, the strain on the power grid would have been alleviated and the crisis likely averted. One of the the first things that Bush did in office was to reinstate the old standards. For some reason, Bush opposed energy effeciency.)

(c) Karl, I have no idea what rules of comma usage you follow, but they don't resemble any that I've ever seen.

 

I should add that, yes, I know that the heat wave occurred during Clinton's reign, but that he actually instituted a means of preventing such a tragedy from happening again.

 

Nope. It was a simple change Clinton quietly made with little fanfare. I'd venture to say that most people don't even know about it. He saw a possible solution to a problem and made it.

When the right wing disowns Oliver North, I'll take this rant more seriously.

 

I seem to remember something about arms, Iran, and a guerrilla war. I seem to remember something about a conviction and how that conviction was overturned because he had been granted immunity for testifying elsewhere. I seem to remember an actual conspiracy.

What sickens me more is the fact that some of the right wing still considers this guy a hero. Just to spite them, I'm going to declare James Trafficant a Great American Hero.

You could believe the Swifties, or you could believe the documents themselves. Look, I was no fan of Kerry, and I had to plug my nose to vote for him, but his conduct during the war was at least as good as Bush's. But I'm tired of arguing with you about this.

I am actually curious to know what you think about this? News like this is why we on the left get annoyed when our patriotism is questioned. How is it possible that these people were released without being charged with anything?

Look, every time that Jim Lehrer ends the News Hour with photographs of the recent dead, I get choked up. Every. Single. Time. The only other recent news story/image that has affected me that much was the footage of dogs and cats being skinned for their fur in China.

I've lived abroad. When I returned to the states, my love of this country was renewed. Just as America has something to learn from Europe, Europe has much to learn from America. I'll not have my patriotism questioned, and to be called a traitor sickens me to the core, especially when a bona fide traitor like Oliver North is still held up as a model of virtue.

 

So you can show us a copy of the after action report where he got his first Purple Heart? Even he didn't release it as part of his last SF-180 'release'.

 

Sigh. I keep promising not to get into this debate again, but I have to ask . . .

Even if this report verified everything that the right says, and that his first Purple Heart was for a very minor injury, would that seriously undermine the rest of his service there? Of course it wouldn't, which is why the Swift Boaters also had to make sh!t up about him shooting kids in the back.

 

It's truly bizarre that this guy calls Ollie North a traitor, and gets upset if the charge comes back at him?

I'm not a big fan of North, I think he was stupid to imagine that he was selling arms to "moderates" in Iran. But a traitor? It's stuff like this that validates the theory that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Get upset all you want bojendyk. You're a traitorous turncoat of a yellowbelly judas. Insanity is no excuse.

 

I should have known better than to engage in this debate. If you think Kerry was actively trying to create a Communist dictatorship, then I have nothing to say. That's complete fantasy. You are only willing to believe the very worst about someone whose biggest flaw is his incredible blandness. I'll say no more on the subject.

I'm no fan of Ortega, but he was unquestionably no worse than the Somozas that preceded him. Believe it or not, I'm no fan of Castro. Aside from surprisingly decent health care, he has provided his country with nothing other than misery and oppression. That said, I would be pissed if I learned that we were selling arms to North Korea to fund opposition groups in Cuba. Some lines should never be crossed. Selling arms to the Ayatollah is one of those lines.

They obviously once had one, but it had long since been dismantled. I've been consistent on this one.

Perhaps your right. On the other hand, perhaps Dr. Germ had more intelligence to offer and a longer history of crimes against humanity than did some kid in the mountains of Afghanistan fingered by a rival tribe's leader.

Fair enough, and I apologize if I offended you. Obviously, I don't equate the sacrifice of American soldiers with the mistreatment of animals. I'm only noting the emotional reactions I have. I'll explain that more below.

But my point is this: it really, really, really pisses me off when I'm told how I feel about the sacrifices made by soliders. I'm fvcking sick of being told that I want these people to die, that I celebrate their deaths, or that I support the enemy. Fvck you, if you've said that to me. When I see them on Lehrer and note that they're 18 or 19 years old, I think, good God, these are children. A person hasn't even begun to live at 18 years old. Their sacrifice is amazing, but I refuse to romanticize the cause for which they fought. It was an unnecessary war, and Bush is championing the nation-building aspect of it only because every other rationale he's had has been undermined. (And it makes me furious to recall Bush ordering the weapons inspectors out of the country immediately before the invasion.)

(Democracy may actually grow a foundation there, but don't give me the line of **************** about how this war was always about democracy. The second anyone brings that up, I'll gladly find the 2000 debate transcripts in which Bush insists that the US ought not be in the business of nation building. I might have even hopped on board if nation-building had been the primary interest and there had been none of this WMD business/9-11 linkage.)

For the record, my half-brother, who I love and care about a great deal, is in the reserves. He's getting older and has thus avoided a call-up (and he's also in the Navy, which makes service even less likely), but the possibility is always on the horizon. This does hit close to home, Bill, which is why I deeply resent being told that I support the enemy and want our soliders to die.

As I have told Karl in the past, my position on the war is this (and I know it doesn't necessarily reflect the position of my peers on the left): Bush needs to either sh!t or get off the pot. Either he pulls our troops out this year, or he triples the troop strength and genuinely pacifies the country. In the celebration of the recent vote, you may have missed that 30-some people were killed in Iraq by insurgents/terrorists over the weekend. The violence isn't likely to end any time soon. But I'm also sufficiently faithless to realize that Bush will never take the political hit that would follow tripling the number of troops in Iraq.

* * * *

Now, to the animal issue. You clearly didn't watch the video I linked to in the thread I started on the subject. If you had, you would get choked up too, because I remember from past posts that you love dogs. I'm not some weepy hippie; the Lehrer obits and the fur stories were the only news stories to provoke this reaction in me. This does not mean that I'm being flippant with regard to the lives of soldiers, or that I think that animals and humans are equal. I know that they're not. But I will concede that it was foolish to mention one in the context of the other, because I suggested an equivalency that didn't really exist.

 

Maybe, but I don't care for U2, so at least I've got that going for me.

 

I cannot answer about Bono. However, I will firmly state that anyone (other than of course Bill) who does not love U2 is an out an out communist.
In 84 I loved U2. Then, Bono got in the way. Got a big head and I really did not care much for them from 88 to 99 or so.
But, now, I have forgiven Bono. How can you not forgive one who makes such beautiful music? Classic rock through and through. Your great grandchildren will still hear U2 on the radio fifty years from now. Tell that to Stefani, 50 Cent, Snoop, et al.

 

[Bill Lumberg]Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you about U2 there...[/Bill Lumberg]

Absolute dreck, U2 are. Bono's antics the past 20 years have indeed helped my antithapy, but god help me they've got to be the most overrated band in the history of rock.

 

So are you a Leninist, Maoist or Trotskyite?

I'd make Nirvana a much more overrated band than U2.

 

The Joshua Tree was their last great album. After that I quit listening. Or was it Rattle and Hum?

 

Now dem's fighting words. Nirvana were fantastic.

 

You can't say that I picked on a minnow.

I was unimpressed with "Nevermind" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is a stripped-down melody stolen from Blue Oyster Cult's "Godzilla"

I'm a big fan of progressive rock, so go ahead and unload on Yes or ELP or King Crimson.

 

OK... I never thought evil of you before, but let's face it, the only contribution Kurt Cobain made to society was blowing his head off.

Sachin

 

"Teen Spirit" is a great song! The resemblence to BOC is coincidental; Nirvana were trying to rip off the Pixies. The best song on that album, however, is "On a Plain."

If you press the right button, I can get as nostalgic as a baby boomer, but I was lucky enough to have grown up in Seattle in the late 80s/early 90s. Bleach was the soundtrack to my high school days.

Prog rock songs remind me of some of Mel's posts: they're extremely long, contain way too many clauses, and often make reference to science fiction.

Adrian Belew was in King Crimson, right? When I was in high school, I saw David Bowie when he toured with Belew. Good guitarist.