More Bad News May be on the Way for Bush

If they hated Iraqi civil rights, they'd have let Saddam continue throwing people into wood chippers and meat grinders.

 

We rape, torture, and murder on a mass scale, but at least we don't throw people in wood chippers. I feel sooo much better now.

 

You guys are playing into the conservatives hands if you compare the prison scenes to Saddam's tortureres.

The issue is simply. Our troops should not engage in that behavior, whereever they are and whoever they are dealing with. Comparisons are not particularly helpful.

As someone pointed out, let the Bush supporters compare their guy to Saddam. I for one want to hold on to less comparative ideals.

 

Mass scale? I think that's quite a stretch.

 

And THIS is the framework that needs to be employed all the time; its NEVER about what anybody else does, its about what we do, and how we do it, and what our own standard is, and whether or not we ALLOW that standard to mutate and adjust (and thus only pay lip-service to it) when the standard becomes hard to maintain.

IOW, do we have a framework for being in the world that springs from something permanent, and we are committed to beyond ourselves, or not?

If we do, is it the Democratic/Freedom/Liberty/Spiritual principles of the Constitution and Declaration, OR is it the uncodified rules of global capitalism, our money system?

 

Where ever you go in the world there are people that will do moronic/evil things. I don't care if the are under the Pope. Just because priests molest children I do not blame the Pope for doing it. I do blame the whole Roman Catholic church for not holding to higher standards and not punishing them swiftly.
Same case here. War is ugly and out of 150,000 troops there are bound to be idiots. Just like every other war. Catch them punish them and do all you can to be sure it does not happen again - then move forward. Dwelling on it for political reasons only emboldens enemies as they see division and infighting, just as you see happened in Mogidishu. Politics ruled the decisions there not logic and we are still paying for it.
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/j/justwar.htm

 

Perhaps, but this is a very serious matter, one which can not be dismissed by nonsensical comparisons with Saddam or lame "just a few bad apples" excuses.

 

Is there anyone out there who really thinks that this abuse was just done by the troops gaurding the Iraqi prisoners for the fun of it?

This didn't happen by accident. This abuse was done because people very high up the chain of command ordered it. However, there's no way that the Bush administration will come clean and tell us who actually ordered it. That will have to be found out externally, probably by someone like Seymore Hersh.

 

Wow! You actually believe this to don't you?
You are also on the "we planned the 911 attacks" bandwagon?

 

They're so cute when they're this age.

Nah, you're right, Letters. These pinheads are the only NCOs in the history of the military who aren't given orders in their job. Wait, in fact, they explicitly violated orders to maintain the standards of the Geneva Convention, that's it - but since they were all so incredibly intelligent and devious, they hid it all from their poor, innocent superiors. Jesus wept.

 

Too bad we're not all robots then eh? Free will sure can suck at times.

 

free will by military personnel on war duty? hmmm....

 

Be careful libs. Adjust your skirts, your glee is showing...

 

Totally agree. That's why people should think before they sin.

 

is it all possible that the "libs" (aka anyone who shrewdly realizes the bush administration is an epic disaster) are actually sick over this whole new mess? ashamed? angry?

really can you be right just once a day? then you'd be half as good as a broken clock

 

Of course they WERE thinking. But they wern't thinking the right thing were they? Anyone thinking the right thing would have put a stop to this right away. <See free will>
At the very least the person in charge of the prison should be held responsible. At the very most the person at the highest level that knew AND let it continue should should pay the price right along with all the others involved.

 

No implication of 'free will' intended for the chain of command. It is an individual act. The reference of chain of command was for those that like to play politics and take every bad situation right to the top.
I agree that if Bush knew and had a hand in this he should be held responsible. Also if John Kerry gave them tips & tricks from his atrocities in Vietnam he also should be held responsible. Just so we cover both sides of the political argument.

 

Yes, because this has aided the advancement of our agenda in Iraq so much. What a well-thought-out plan. Ordering the soldiers to take pictures of it was a stroke of genius!

 

Hmmm. Illuminating.

Lastort says "abuse," you define that -by your response, above - NOT as the actual shit we did to these poeple, but the taking of pictures while doing it. Is this a corollary of the "We're sorry, sorry that we got caught taking pictures of it" initial BushCo. position?