Moore's red revisited

Referee Vaughn has issued something like 9 red card in 17 MLS games that he has reffed. That should tell you something.

The Fox Sport World crew and the ESPN2 crew all believe it was not a red card offense, for what that's worth.

 

The running start would kind of be like a "what the heck" kind of thing, deserving of probably a yellow because that is reckless. But Nothing actually happened so a yellow was what it deserved...certainly not a red.

 

Yeah, it tells you he's not afraid to pull out the plastic when the play get's out of hand. There are many no-calls that piss me off when I watch a game, and when I say that I was pleased. The charge up and being totally tactical in nature, the tackle was worthy of the card.

It's worth nothing, most US announcers don't have a firm grasp of the LOTG.

 

I'm an advocate of red cards when appropriate. I think the MLS refs issue too few cards, yellow or red. I particularly don't like the reticence to issue a second yellow.

But this was not a red card offense.

Your statement that the announcers know nothing is simply baseless hyperbole.

 

It shouldn't get out of hand, because he should be throwing yellows before that.

It's a statistically insignificant set, but in the two matches he's called so far this year he's awarded two penalties - one which was a very bad call.

You know, if the card or penalty is deserved, then I've got no beef if the ref calls it. In fact, I'd have a beef if he didn't. But that red was a horrid call, as was the penalty he awarded in that same game, and I think refs should be held accountable for serial sub-par performances.

 

Interesting idea to consider the run-up as more a cause of the card than the tackle itself. If this was the refs thinking, I would hope he take some classes or something. One difference between a professional and an amatuer is the ability to check that intensity and not translate a ferocious approach into a violent tackle. And to play devil's advocate, the run-up from so far back would lend credence to the theory that the tackler was playing a 50/50 ball, and could be evidence of no malice.

As for the notion that it was a tactical foul, has one of those ever been called in the offensive third?

 

Joe-Max was VERY late on that tackle. He was nowhere near the ball. It was a very bad tackle, though I think Mapp avoided the worst of it. Since he avoided the worst of it, I thought it only deserved a yellow. But a red wasn't a crazy call IMHO.

I know the FSW crew and ESPN2 crew pooh-poohed the red and criticized the ref, but they're all buddies with Joe-Max and have been so for a long time, and in typically PC fashion, they were just sticking up for their buddy, who admittedly is not a dirty player. I thought they were being smarmy though by not even considering whether it should have been a red or not.

Of course, no one would argue that we have serious soccer analysts in this country, and in this case it was no different IMHO.

Anyway, that's my pointless .02....

 

The tackle was not from behind, it was low to the ground, studs were not up, and there was obviously no intent to foul/injure.

Yellow at worst. No chance in hell thats a straight red.

 

I pretty much agree with this post. It probably shouldn't have been a red but when you come in that hard and miss the ball by 10 feet don't complain when the ref sends you off.

 

Good analysis by Flashman.

The real debate is whether JMM deserved a yellow or red. I think it was a totally reckless tackle that deserved a red.

 

I was at the game last year when Kamler got that red,and there were significant differences. One, in the Kamler case, the ball was going out play over the end line. In fact, my memory is that it was already out of bounds by the time Kamler touched the opposing player.
On the JMM tackle, the ball was at the top of the box, so the tackle wasn't reckless in the sense of there being no possible gain.

Two, Kamler had been subbed into a game the Revs were losing, and had been running around like a crazy man for the short time he was on the field, so it was entirely reasonable for the ref to conclude he crossed over the line. Moore came into a tie game and could not rationally be said to have been 'just asking for a red'.

Flashman,
In addition to the announcers you mentioned, the following people, who don't know Moore and would have no reason to root for the Revs, also thought the red card was harsh: the Fire announcers, several Fire fans and 2 or 3 neutral fans who were at the game.

For me the bottem line is this:
The red card was very harsh if you compare it similar tackles in MLS or other professional leagues. For example, Tyrone Marshall's tackle on Ross Paule in the LA-Crew game on 4/5 looked far worse to me, but Marshall only got a yellow. And I've certainly seen plenty of tackles as bad as or worse than Moore's in games from Italy, England and Portugal that didn't result in an ejection.

 

Don't get me wrong. I thought the red - in the end - was pretty harsh as well, and I know it wasn't just the boys at ESPN2 and FSW who disagreed with the call. But the fact is, the tackle looks worse on replay than it did live (when I saw it live I immediately questioned the call; it was only on the replay that I reconsidered). The referee had a good look at it and that's what he decided. And for those self righteous creeps on national tv to just dismiss it out of hand - "the ref has dished out 9 reds in 19 games, so that ought to tell you something" - is stupid at best, hypocritical at worst. I mean, here we want refs to call things closer and give yellows for dissent and persistent infringement and stop some of the physical play which keeps play from opening up, and yet when a ref decides to dole some cards out, he's immediately dismissed as incompetent almost to the point of pitying him for being such a buffoon. Pathetic, not on the ref's part (wish I could remember his name), but on the analysts part. If McCarty had made this tackle, they wouldn't have pounced on the ref so quickly.

Again, I think it was a yellow and in the end wsa a harsh call. But on that replay from near the corner flag you can see how terribly late the tackle was. Only because Mapp was able to avoid the worst of it should the tackle only have been a yellow.

Again, that's only my pointless .02...

ps. And in the end I guess it all evens out as Franchino deserved a red for his two-fisted hammer into Martino in the late stages of their game last week, not that the Revs wouldn't have traded Joe-Max for Joey the Boxer all in all.