With the red card on sunday he will not be able to make his home debut this saturday. I have heard from someone though that you can complain about the call, and it can be over-turned by the league. Does anybody have any idea if this is true? If so the circumstances. THANKS.
Only thing I can think of is if the Revs file a formal appeal with the league, in which case he might be able to play pending a review of the call. That being said, with the weather iffy for this weekend and Moore still trying achieve full match fitness, it might make sense to have him serve it and be done with it; Nicol strikes me as being pragmatic enough to see that. The Magpie
I don't remember the exact circumstances, but I'm fairly sure I recall a red being overturned at some point in MLS history. While it would be a nice gesture to JMM, and was a horrendous call to begin with, it may not be in MLS' best interest to lessen it to a yellow. Rules are rules, and a dangerous precedent could be set/enhanced.
The only case I can think of was Serna vs SJ in the playoffs. I might be wrong, but I think it was Diego and something happened like the ref gave him a red because he thought Serna already had a yellow. I wouldn't expect the league to overturn a judgement call like that.
As much as I thought it was a poor call, the leagues is not about to overturn a call in the first full week. Right or wrong, it would make that ref useless ( I should say MORE useless) for the rest of the season. He really did have a bad game. Bad hand ball call that almost gave the Fire the game, JMM's red card (a yellow at best) he didn't really even hit the guy and it wasn't dangerous. THat Red-headed hack being allowed to crunch people time and time again. DMM pulling down TnT from behind... I mean really, he sucked.
The players know it was a bad call. Whether or not the league overturns the call is not going to change the players' opinion of that ref. The damage has already been done.
While I'd be shocked to see MLS intervene, the other unfortunate factor is that the 3rd game is on that disgrace of a surface in Dallas. Supposedly the players already hate it after the 1st game there (someone said their legs were aching after 20 minutes!). I think the Revs had planned for Moore to see his first significant action on "real" grass, but now the choice will be to bring him in on the league's worst surface, or hold him off to game 4! It probably deserves a thread of it's own, but that site in Texas is an absolute disgrace. I don't know about the dimensions, but the surface and the markings are even worse than Naperville (not to mention the HEAT)!
the league CAN overturn a red card if they feel it was given recklessly. IMOH i have no clue on why he was given a red to begin with because - 1) it was not from behind 2) It was late, but not 5 years late. 3) he just got into the game, trying to break himself in.
Glad we agree. The laws of the game prescribe a yellow card for late and reckless challenges. Reds are for repeat offenders or violent conduct. (i.e. Razov's little stomp last year) Yes it was. I've seen the play 4 times on slo-mo ... JMM clearly came in from Mapp's right side. His legs were in front of of Mapp and took him out from in front, not behind. Where Mapp was or wasn't looking couldn't be more irrelevent. That said he missed the ball and deserved a yellow. (Although I've seen much, much worse go unpunished).
Dunno. Ask Curtin. Don't expect the league to overturn this card. It falls well within the category of "the opinion of the referee" which is non-protestable. Matters of fact pertaining to the LOTG (such as an incorrectly given 2nd yellow/red) may be overturned.
Certainly the players know that it was a crap call by a crap ref, but the idea that a team/player can appeal a red card is a bad precedent to start. Think about how many times fans of any team feel they were robbed in any given game. Every 50-50 judgement will be under even more scrutiny, and if nothing else, this will actually increase the yapping of players if they think they can get a "bad" call reversed. As bad a call as this was, it's time for us to suck it up and take one for the league. For the Revs to whine like Tab Ramos when he got his baby blanket taken away would only encourage more of this crap. Vaughn will have a tough enough time in future games, and if he can show that this was an ecxeption to the rule, and that he is as good as a semi-sober Raul Dominguez with one eye missing, he deserves that benefit of the doubt. But by publicly overturning his decision, right or wrong, the message is clear to every punk-ass player in the league: You would be stupid not to bitch and moan even in the most border-line situations, because if you make enough of a fuss, you just might get your way. We want the opposite: Players should just shut up an play, even if they felt they got a raw deal. Nice to see the Revs take that approach and salvage a point, instead of whining about how unfair life is, and more than likely, squandering three points. Tom
Maybe if JMM hadn't chopped both of legs out, from behind (the ref's vantage point) he would have just got a yellow.. Last I checked card's weren't awarded based on the the referee's "angle of observation", but in a matter of speaking, the "angle of infraction." Vaughn was not in a good enough position to accurately judge the nature of the infraction, and as such made a judgement call (in deeming the tackle worthy of a straight red) that in hindsight was probably not the correct one, not when considering Moore's position relative to the play, and not when replay's showed the action to be less malcious than initially perceived. Then again it was his call to make and he worked with all the information he had at his disposal. It's unfortunate for Joe-Max, but what can you do. I'd say let him serve the suspension, let him get better fit, and get ready for the next game after the opener. The Magpie
well said. bad tackle, bad call, move on. this isn't going to be the last bad call the revs will suffer. and im sure they will benifit from one or two down the stretch. nice job by the revs in not falling apart, and saving the point. just the kind of thing that two games in costa rica prepares you for.
Memo ----- To: Terry Vaughn From: W. Harris Subject: Incident at Naperville Pleasure doing business, your check is in the mail. -W
Moore's definitely out for the opener because of the straight red card, the first ever for Moore - there's no contesting cards. Hence, Moore, like many here, will be a spectator on Saturday. Oh yeah: Welcome back, homey.
I disagree with the people who have been saying that being able to contest cards that result in suspension will further undermine the referee's authority. AFAIK in the EPL suspensions (which don't take effect immediately anywy) can be overturned on appeal, and referees in England certainly seem to be treated with a lot more respect than referees in MLS. IMO the way to cut down on dissent in MLS is for the refs to give more yellow cards and for the league to hand out more -- and more substantial -- fines to players who are out of line (i.e. Mathis). If anything, being able to overturn suspensions on appeal should make players less likely to complain to the ref since they know that there is another authority to whom they can plead their case at a later date...
Mike knows alot, but its all tinted Fire red. Have some pity, bad reffing may be the only way Chicago gets any points this year, except when they play DC.
I agree with The REverend. This constant yapping at the refs is sickening. In the DC/KC game, the ref was surrounded by half a dozen DC players more than once, all yelling at him. It makes MLS look less than professional. If MLS is going to develop into a first class league, the players are going to have to show some class. The refusal to give second yellow cards is also a blot on the MLS game. Jim Curtin should have been gone at least by the fifth time that he climbed over and/or onto Taylor Twellman.
It probably does, which is the reason why there's 10 threads devoted to it, scattered all around BigSoccer. Knock yourself out next week in the run up to the game against the Burn at Southlake, but don't think that you'll be saying anything terribly original.
I think someone's a little bitter about not advancing past the quarterfinals last year.... ....at the same time, maybe he's right in that JMM deserves the red card. After all, this guy should know a lot about red cards after watching Hristo Stoitchkov for a few years.
So then it's not just me, and there really is a rule that you're supposed to go around players and not through them? It looks like crap to play soccer on, but for a high school football field it's pretty impressive.