News: MLS went out of business in November 2001.

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by ElJefe, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If anyone can tell me how much the Lamar Hunt family is worth, I'm curious.

    He never was listed on Forbes list of billionaires, despite owning the Chiefs (which at his death Forbes valued at 950 million), a small piece of the Chicago Bulls, and three teams in Major League Soccer amongst other investments.

    I always got the feeling that Lamar was a house rich cash poor billionaire. Raising the cash he did for both Crew Stadium and Pizza Hut Park might very well have strapped his cash reserves.

    It's odd that someone owning a billion dollars in sports teams somehow avoided showing up on a list of billionaires, but go figure.

    And no, Lamar (and his progeny) and relations in UnityHunt are not rolled into his sibling you find on the Forbes list. That was another part of his daddy's past.
     
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  2. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Dan is the baby, Junior is the family idiot.
     
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  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None of the above. It was Joe Roth that got Seattle off the sidelines when he approached Garber in 2007 about getting a team and Garber pointed him towards Seattle and peristent gadfly, Hanauer.

    It is my understanding that Allen has not contributed a dime to the Sounders outside of not charging them to use First and Goal and CenturyLink Field. While there is certainly a lot of value in this, Seattle doesn't have a team without Roth.
     
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  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was always a bit surprised Michael Eisner didn't have Disney kick the tires of moving the Mutiny to Walt Disney World's Wide World of Sports. Still somewhat close enough to the fanbase in Tampa not to lose all of them and would have fit in with their investment in sports (the Mighty Ducks, etc.).

    It wouldn't have been a great long-term move it turns out for either Disney or MLS but at the time the league was hardly in position to refuse.
     
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  5. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    #55 Len, Apr 15, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
    I was a bit surprised Fed Ex and/or Auto Zone (Home offices in Memphis) didn't get involved with MLSMemphis back in the day. It just seemed to me that those two companies would have seen a benefit from getting involved in the international sport.

    Apparently not.

    EDIT: Although they may have been involved with the league since then.
     
  6. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The extended family itself is extraordinarily wealthy. But Forbes does not break down who has/had what

    http://www.forbes.com/profile/hunt/
     
  7. patricksp

    patricksp 91.9 Crew Fan Rating

    Nov 4, 2007
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am a Disney nerd, and it was talked about but they owned a NHL team and they didn't want to own another team. I think it pissed off some stock holders.
     
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  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So's my wife. She told me the sports were Eisner's pet project (which is why Disney divested of them as fast as they could after he left) but she didn't mention that the idea of the Mutiny actually came up.

    Of course now Disney has its own problems. Universal is kicking their ass in Florida, their new price increases are a joke. ESPN is finally losing ground in keeping the rest of the networks alive. The only thing they have going for them are their Marvel and Star Wars franchises.
     
  9. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if you're a publicly-held corporation, owning a pro sports team is a crummy idea. Sure, you'll cash in when you sell, but on a yearly basis, they're not that great because they don't return THAT much profit.

    And I think that Disney's ownership of the Ducks and the Angels was all about programming for a new ESPN-owned regional sports network, but when all the cable and satellite companies told ESPN to eat shit, that idea fell apart and Disney sold the Ducks and Angels.
     
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  10. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure you are right about Allen and Roth. Allen may not have contributed a dime but not charging rent at Century Link certainly helps the Sounders save a few dimes which can be reinvested in players, academy, training facilities etc. That's got tangible, quantifiable value, so Allen has contributed to Seattle's success in a way.
     
  11. jeffclimbs

    jeffclimbs Member

    Real Salt Lake
    United States
    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Well, that's a helluva big deal right there, and the parks are doing just fine despite the price increases.
     
  12. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My memory might also be a little hazy on this, but the way I remember it was that the Mutiny had a poor lease at the old Sombrero, but they could at least tread water if they could draw reasonable crowds of 12-15k or so. They didn't get any (or at least not much) of parking or concession sales, but they were trying to negotiate better terms. If they had an owner, rather than being run by league bean-counters, it might have been easier to make a go of it. The real problem started with the new stadium.

    Whoever was in charge of building it (Tampa authorities) gave the Glazers and Bucs a sweetheart deal that there was no way the Mutiny could break even unless the Glazers were the owners (in a Kraft-Revs like scenario) where they would be charging themselves rent. Once the Glazers decided not to buy, that was it. I remember the effort to get Steinbrenner on board, and the idea that he could have taken a BB spring training park and renovated it as a SSS was an interesting idea, but ultimately that failed too.

    Interestingly enough, the new stadium was this close to being the Revs' early death later that year. In 2002, the Revs were doing badly, like they always had, and had fired their coach. By mid-summer they were going nowhere and not looking likely to make the playoffs. The Krafts had badly underestimated the New Stadium Factor, and were drinking the kool-aid that CMGi Field was so fantastic that all they had to do was open the gates. Sure, that was true for their NFL team who just won their first ever Super Bowl, but Revs fans were taken aback by the price increases (it cost more to park than the cheapest ticket) and that all the McDonald's "dollar menu" items cost $6. Their philosophy is that each "business" must carry their own weight, and while it cost $40,000 to open up the old place, and the Revs could do OK with their attendance numbers there, the new stadium cost 4x as much and with 15k averages, that wasn't going to work. They laid off almost all the Revs only staff and made the Patriots staff do double work (how d'ya think that went over?).

    They were all set to pull the plug on the team in late August, but a late Douda Kante header won a game in Naperville and the Revs went on an 8-1-1 tear to close out the season with a division title. They had a great playoff run (of course, they had fired all the ticket sellers, so they had to hire the MetroStars ticket staff for the playoffs--they weren't busy) and ended up getting 63,000+ for MLS Cup final. How different things might have been if Winston Griffiths' header was an inch lower....
     
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  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not really. Shanghai is way behind and way over budget, My Magic + was a huge disaster. Over the last few weeks Disney has announced massive staffing cuts in Orlando to try to meet shareholder expectations. Hours are being cut back, things that were free or low-cost perks are being jacked up to massive prices to cover the debts, etc. Meanwhile Universal is recording record attendances and opening amazing new rides, getting tons of PR.

    Disneyland is still going strong because the leadership team there actually has managed it well but the rest of the theme park division is in a world of hurt.
     
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  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Which, to be honest, is one of the major reasons the WUSA folded. While the burn rate was out of control, the potential to retrench and stabilize was there. Push come to shove, the losses in MLS came down to what Phil, Lamar, and Bob were willing to stomach. The primary owners in WUSA were Cox, Comcast, Time-Warner and Discovery Channel. Explaining to your shareholders why quarterly losses were -0.29/share instead of -0.27/share because of your losses in the WUSA isn't long term viable. That's exactly what happened to the original Cosmos.

    It's all fun and games while everyone is making money, but when the stock market tightens up, the shareholders like to cut the avoidable losses.
     
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  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Nah man, the core movie business is doing great. Don't forget the animated feature films.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Right. The animated features are crushing it right now.
     
  17. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This reminds me of when I thought MLS had made it. When the Revs got north of 30k for the conference final against Red Bull, and those people cared, that seemed like not the turning point, but the final demonstration that MLS was a big league. Minor leagues always see attendance drop for playoff games, because they aren't on the schedule. Major leagues see attendance rise, because people think those games are important. As much as Gillette sucked for the Revs initially, I don't think it's a problem for them now. Clearly, people will make the trek if they feel like it, and the league is big enough that they should. Plus, it's controlled by the owner. It seems to me that the issue with New England is getting the owner to put the effort in to support the team, not treat it like a tax write-off.
     
  18. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    And who amongst us isn't gliding around the house in a sparkly blue dress singing "Let It Go?"
     
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  19. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's so 2013. It's all about shipping Nick and Judy now.
     
  20. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    You're telling me to Let It Go?
     
  21. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    If only the league used the international schedule you could build a snowman during large chunks of the season. If you wanted to...

    Do you?
     
  22. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    It doesn't have to be a snowman.
     
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  23. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You guys got the Mutiny details right to the best of my recollection. The Glazers still really cheese me off. It's bad enough they basically made soccer unviable in their stadium by both refusing to modify the parking and concessions deal or buying the team, but then they go throw way more of their money at ManU, and never even bring them here for a friendly. Meh. I know it's about the money, but I have disdain for the singular role they played in setting back soccer here several years. Heck once they won that one Super Bowl they wrecked the Bucs, too.
     
  24. Green and BLue

    Green and BLue Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC
    Nov 3, 2003
    Republic of Cascadia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, if only SOMEBODY in one of those cities had been willing to shoulder the costs and make an expansion bid back in 2004, back when contraction was still a recent memory. IF only there was somebody who kept professional soccer alive in their ctiy, albeit in a Div II league, and was willing to shoulder the financial burdens to do so for the better part of a decade before finally getting into MLS as part of an ownership group in a second MLS expansion bid.

    If only there had been somebody with the *******ing balls to do such things...

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, if only somebody in one of those cities had done something like that...
     
  25. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #75 Bill Archer, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
    Funny: I didn't know Joe Roth had changed his name. And, apparently, his face.

    Your revisionist -not to say delusional - version of events in Seattle, wherein Hanauer, who is a lightweight "gadfly"(to borrow a term from a respected BS poster) brought MLS to Seattle instead of the guy who actually DID, Joe Roth, is fascinating in the pure quality of it's wrongness.

    MLS has a closet somewhere filled with old expansion proposals from guys with no money, no stadium and no freakin clue.

    Due respect to the guy for running a minor league soccer team for a number of years. I can give you a long list of other guys who "shouldered the financial burden"of operating a minor league soccer team in the US. I used to attend USISL owners meetings and the room was chock full of them. Frank Marcos wasn't picky, he'd take money from anybody.

    As for "keeping soccer alive in Seattle" you might want to look up the name Alan Hinton, the man who brought the Sounders back in 1994. Hanauer had nothing to do with it.

    I do love the theory that Hanuer offering Don Garber the staggering sum of [DrEvil] ONE MILLION DOLLARS [/DrEvil] in return for an MLS team in Seattle is an actual "expansion bid". But again,it wasn't until Roth met with Garber a few years later (Hanauer wasn't even in the room) that the team became a real possibility.

    (Of course, back when MLS had a little more integrity, Seattle was told that they had to provide a stadium with a real grass pitch,not the plastic crap in Husky Stadium, which was all they were offering at the time. Again, it was Roth's wallet that got them over that hump, not Hanauer's carnival barker bullshit)

    And just in passing, instead of this Hanuer fantasy of yours, you could examine the fact that when bids were opened for the initial round of MLS teams, the City of Seattle managed to round up a grand total of 1300 people willing to sign a pledge to buy tickets.

    1300 people. Impressive.

    Apparently Saint Adrian didn't have a lot of friends back then. But then, without Joe Roth's money and Paul Allen's field, all he ever was was just another garden variety soccer wannabe.
     
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