Anyone a fan and knowledgable about both J-League and MLS? I was a resident in Tokyo when J-League launched back in the early 90's...I wasn't super impressed at the time, but I suspect it has gotten a lot better since then, like MLS. How does J-League compare with MLS these days?
j-league teams typically perform poorly in the AFC champions league but also typically beat MLS teams in preseason friendlies. take that as you wish.
They also seem have a bigger, and more hardcore fanbase. The MLS will never come close to the crowds of Urawa. And I'm guessing that soccer is pretty big in Japan, and gets plenty of media coverage now.
I've read that a lot of the "hardcore" stuff is choreographed. Also, take into account the size of the country. I think we have as many soccer fans here as they do, we're just spread out all over the damn place. If you could hop a train and get to an MLS stadium inside of 5 hours almost anywhere in the nation our attendance would skyrocket.
wasn't the 800 NY took to DC called the highest MLS away support ever? That's a lot less than 5 hours away. Even in England, the away support is typically no more than 10% of the crowd. Any team that pulls 15,000 at home isn't going to be taking 5000 away on a regular basis, even if you could cross the country cheaply in a few hours. For the record, the J-League averaged just under 19,000 last season, but with a big variation in support. http://www.j-league.or.jp/eng/results/ just to put a little flesh to the bones of my statement above, the away followings at reading were.. Plymouth 3,979 Millwall 679 Burnley 890 C Palace 3,777 Crewe 353 Sheff Utd 3,745 Ipswich 2,034 Leeds 3,012 Sheff Weds 1,620 Hull 1,200 Luton 2,158 Brighton 1,860 Leicester 1,028 Cardiff 1,880 Coventry 1,425 Norwich 1,883 Southampton 2,214 Preston 1,598 Watford 2,246 Wolves 2,022 Derby 1,358
And this year is looking no different. J-League teams in AFC Champions League = MLS teams in CONCACAF Champions Cup Another similarity is that both fan groups always have their excuses ready...
For Attendance check this link: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328194&highlight=attendance I can't vouch for the timing, accuracy or source, but it puts J-League at about 18k/game and rising with MLS at 14k/game and declining vs 2002. There are only two major spectator sports (not counting sumo) in Japan, but we have several, so I don't think much can be gained by comparing attendance figures except relative popularity of the sports in those countries. I don't think it really has anything to do with quality of play which is totally subjective. I attended a Marinos-Galaxy game on a weeknight last year and the Galaxy lost 2-0, with both goals being scored in the second half after the big names were pulled. Many Galaxy regulars were on the bench or only played half the game. My recollection was that the Marinos played a nice uptempo attacking game, but couldn't score. I have no idea if Marinos played their first team or not. This tends to cast a shadow on the meaning of head to head games between the two leagues. Steve Sampson said something like "I think we all know the real games are played on Saturday..." So aside from direct play and attendance figures, how do the leagues compare? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's notable that there aren't any US players in J-League or Japanese (not Japanese-Brazilians but Japanese) players in MLS.
What does that mean? Japan is well ahead of US in both national and league atmosphere. I don't even have to take easy way out and use Urawa as example
So what if those pics are "choreographed." The fans are behind the team and are mad for it, nuff said. At least those fans bring the sack in VAST numbers on gameday. They even pick up their refuse/garbage when they leave supposedly. Another amazing thing.
FYI, all the choreographed fan stuff and picking up garbage is a big shock to us Americans, but it is behavior not out of the ordinary for Japanese. it's a shame that we Galaxy fans can barely get 100 people to chant at the games, but that is anomaly of US soccer audiences and not the play on the field. Comparing fan devotion is interesting but doesn't tell you about the level of play on the field.
I saw a Kyoto Purple Sanga match and one thing that impressed me (apart from everyone wearing purple - even a girl in a kimono had it tied with a purple obi) was that one end spent the entire game jumping up and down and singing - particularly impressive as it had "cooled" to 92F that evening and was very very humid. I went to a Chicago Fire match a few years ago, and although I was impressed with the effort the Section 8 guys made to get the atmosphere going, the overall effect, sadly, didn't come close.
True, and because of the types of cultural differences you allude to, comparing fan behavior at matches doesn't necessarily indicate the relative level of devotion to the team either. A loyal MLS fan might be more inclined to sit quietly and watch vs. participate in organized chants. That doesn't do much for stadium atmosphere, but does help pay the bills. I once sat in the "Ichiro section" (a group of Japanese fans in the outfield seats, cheering Ichiro) at a baseball game. Despite not having any particular rooting interest in Ichiro, by the end of the game, we actually started participating in "gam -ba-re, gam-ba-re, I-chi-ro!" chants, just for the heck of it, and because everyone around us was doing it.
There should be a macro so that when people ask "how is MLS compared to the XX league?", it responds: quality of play in MLS is worse; atmosphere in MLS is worse; organization in MLS is worse; MLS is more defensively oriented... Did I leave anything out?
So football games in Europe and South America are "choreographed" too, whatever that means? I guess MLS is only non choreographed league
10 years on J - league 2 divisions 31 teams Last year Div 1 Attendance League Total 5,742,233@Average 18,765 http://www.j-league.or.jp/eng/. Population (2006 est.): 127,463,611 What does the MLS have 1 league 12 teams Year G Total Average 2005 192 2,900,716 15,108 USA. Population, 2004 estimate. 293,655,404 Is this the sort of comparison your looking for?
Good info Grah, but no. None of that kind of objective stuff... I'm talking about on the field play. I don't mean how much love the fan has for his team. Or how many sing, or how many wear the team colors, or how much money the teams have or how many seats the stadiums have empty or full... Attendance, money, fan support aren't the things that tell you about how talented the level of play is. A good example is USWNT playing at home to a 1/3 full house for a World Cup Qualifier. It says not enough people are interested in paying to see it, but not how talented Hamm, Foudy & Wambach are. So no. I don't care about that stuff since it doesn't really tell you how play is.
What about the USMNT playing at home to 1/3 full house for a World Cup Qualifier? It happened several times during the last qualifying campaign.
Yes, so true...I'd actually written that at first, but decided to head off skill criticism by putting the US Women who are usually the best in the world and have the hardware to prove it.
Don't forget, this is the number of "paid" spectetors in the stadium, not "ticket distributed". However, this years' attendance is bit low compared to last year's, due to the fact that three clubs that drew 14k were replaced with three clubs that barely drew 7k in J2. About 5 to 7 games... I don't have the exact records, but J clubs won in all the games.