Last year was better thanks to the great run of RSL in CCL, but this year the MLS teams SUCKED in CCL and for the perception of potencial MLS fans is not worth it to whatch inferior teams when they have many options on TV from europe and latin american soccer.
Barley anybody knows what CCL is or cares how well MLS teams do in it. That's hardly what's keeping the fringe fan from jumping on board, although it might be another excuse used by somewhat knowledgeable soccer fans who just won't support their local team regardless.
Actually, from what I've read and heard, it is a factor, especially in the Hispanic community. Not the #1 factor, I'm sure, but it's definitely a tangible factor nonetheless. Especially when the only time many Hispanics have seen these teams play has been in the Concachampions. Also, word of CCL performance has spread more to non-Hispanic fans over the years. But, as we all know, most interest is in Europe, which has the world's best football.
Fans not supporting the local team is certainly a issue in many MLS markets, but for TV ratings I think the issue is at least as much attracting the interest of people with no local MLS team. But wider point about the impact, or lack thereof, of the CCL certainly taken.
Exactly if quality of football was the only reason we all watched the game then no league outside Europe top 4-5 would exist right now. Who would watch the FIRE is they can watch Man U? Who would watch Cruz Azul when they can watch Barcelona? Even in Mexico and the USA; I would guess that the Guadalajara - Velez game got more viewers than the Boca Jrs - Fluminence (was it flu, I forget) even when flu and Boca are better quality, the game had better football, but people follow Chivas not because they play good football, but because it is their "home", "cultural", "historical" team.
I'm pretty sure the fanbases of RSL, Seattle and Toronto generally know of the CCL since their recent games were marketed and well attended. Houston and DC have had similar attention in the past. I think there are several other clubs where the CCL could get significant attention if they made it. And of course fans of other CONCACAF clubs living in the US are very aware, since for many it's their only chances to ever see their clubs live. Of course I'm not suggesting this has a greater impact nationally, but there has to be an impact in these specific groups. I would guess there wouldn't be much negative impact with the people that are already part of a particular MLS fanbase. If anything losing may make them hungrier to win next time. But there probably is a negative effect on those fans of other CONCACAF clubs who will likely use poor MLS performance as an excuse to further ignore the league.
Very true but what about the vast majority of people for whom it is not home or their cultural historical team? The numbers would seem to indicate that there are many American soccer fans who would fall into that category so could this be why the EPL still outdraws MLS rather than pure soccer snobbery? There is no equation to show how geographically close or culturally connected someone has to be to consider a team their own as in your Chivas example but I am pretty sure it stops well short of national boundaries. That is to say it is clear Americans will not follow an MLS team just because they are American. That being the case would it be prudent to expect that growing the TV audience nationally for MLS rather than in local markets will be a very long haul and will have more to do with the general growth in the popularity soccer rather than MLS itself being a catalyst for that growth? In short it seems plausible that MLS TV ratings will grow only in line with the "best" leagues in the World so as long as EPL, CL viewing figures remain relatively low MLS has little chance of superseding them let alone streaking away toward the sort of TV figures other Major leagues are generating. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new but MLS really needs EPL and CL etc to succeed as well if it wants to be major league in TV revenue and no amount of calling out the "eurosnobs" by some BS posters or NY Cosmos revivals will change that in a significant way.
MLS just has no clout in the American sports scene. There was a guy visiting from Uruguay, a HUGE soccer fan. Supports his local teams there. In the US he was excited as hell to go to NBA or MLB games. Flat out refused to go to MLS games. "It's gonna be terrible". I am sure he's never heard of the CCL, so that's not the problem. How do you change this "it's gonna be terrible" perception? No idea. Also, watching MLS games as a neutral really isn't that great. Supporting your local team is fun, but when watching a neutral game it's so much easier to catch a European game of higher quality. I think nationally televised MLS games are still carried by the local markets.
But trace this back to it's original premise of why people aren't watching, and it doesn't make sense. Most of the people who know CCL results in a given year are committed enough that they're not changing the channel based upon them. There probably is some general knowledge of CCL results among the Latino fanbase (probably almost none among those who watch European soccer exclusively), but there's reason to doubt it's year-by-year results, where viewers turn their TVs on and off because of it. In fact, in that case, the specific results are probably only marginally relevant, because they affect mostly those who already felt MLS was an inferior product and probably already weren't watching. This factor seems highly unlikely to explain the ups and downs of year-on-year viewership. A more likely explanation for that phenomenon (assuming there even is one, as it's been a small sample size), to me, is the increase in supply. More MLS games are on channels that more people can watch, which makes the one ESPN game less 'appointment viewing.'
But do you really think that's because Hispanic fans are excited about the CCL itself, or is it simply because the CCL provides such a stark reminder of how far MLS has to go to catch up to FMF, being the only forum in which the two leagues meet? I mean, the US isn't the only country where interest in the CCL is lackluster, especially in the group stages. ------RM
I wonder if April historically is a challenge. I've sorted the ESPN/ESPN2 ratings from 2010 by date: Tue Mar 15 9:30 ESPN Los Angeles 1, Seattle 0 0.4 604 Sat Apr 9 7:00 ESPN2 New York 0, Philadelphia 3 0.2 227 Thu Apr 14 11:00 ESPN2 Chicago 2, Portland 4 0.2 214 Thu Apr 21 8:00 ESPN2 New York 4, D.C. United 0 0.2 236 Sat May 7 11:00 ESPN2 New York 1, Los Angeles 1 0.2 320 Sat May 14 11:00 ESPN2 Portland 1, Seattle 1 0.2 328 Sat May 21 10:00 ESPN2 Los Angeles 1, Chivas USA 0 0.1 196 Thu June 9 10:00 ESPN2 Chicago 0, Sporting K.C. 0 0.1 163 Thu June 23 10:21 ESPN2 New York 2, Seattle 4 0.3 410 Sun June 26 2:02 ESPN New York 1, Chicago 1 0.4 622 Sat July 2 10:30 ESPN2 New York 2, San Jose 2 0.1 193 Sun July 3 9:00 ESPN2 Houston 0, Colorado 0 0.1 156 Mon July 4 8:30 ESPN2 New England 3, Real Salt Lake 3 0.1 144 Mon July 4 10:37 ESPN2 Seattle 0, Los Angeles 0 0.2 289 Sun July 10 4:00 ESPN Seattle 3, Portland 2 0.3 467 Wed July 27 8:30 ESPN2 2011 MLS All-Star Game 0.5 781 Thu Aug 18 9:00 ESPN2 D.C. United 1, Chicago 1 0.1 193 Thu Sep 29 9:00 ESPN2 D.C. United 2, Philadelphia 3 0.2 296 Tue Oct 4 7:30 ESPN2 Los Angeles 0, New York 2 0.2 276 Fri Oct 14 10:20 ESPN2 Real Salt Lake 0, Colorado 0 0.2 227 Sun Oct 16 9:00 ESPN Chivas USA 0, Los Angeles 1 0.2 298 Thu Oct 20 7:30 ESPN2 Philadelphia 0, New York 1 0.1 181 Sun Oct 30 3:00 ESPN2 West Semi Game 1: Los Angeles 1, New York 0 0.2 253 Sun Oct 30 5:08 ESPN2 East Semi Game 1: Houston 2, Philadelphia 1 0.2 256 After a terrific opener, you can see that the numbers fell off sharply in April last year. The 2011 ratings seem a bit off even 2010 numbers, but not hugly so. Still, May and June were very good last year, including the three top regular season games on ESPN2 and the highest rated game of the year on ESPN. Let's see what these numbers look like at the 4th of July weekend.
I'm not sure how the opinion of a guy from Uruguay really matters. I don't think MLS is really concerned with winning the Uruguayan demographic. Of course people visiting from South America or Europe are likely to have a low opinion of our league, if that opinion is based solely on the quality of the play on the field. Watching most sports as a neutral isn't that great. When I was a huge "baseball" fan in the 90's I rarely watched a game that didn't involve the Indians. It's like that for a lot of fans. Really, the only sport with a huge neutral following is the NFL, and that's driven by fantasy football and gambling. I'm gonna quibble with this. I just can't get into foreign club soccer, the primary reason being that each league only has a few teams worth watching, and more often then not, they're playing teams that aren't worth watching. Why should I get excited watching Barcelona stomp the crap out of one of the teams that isn't Real Madrid? (This also applies to most of the Champions League, BTW.) And watching two mid-table clubs go at it isn't any more exciting than a good MLS match. At least MLS is my league, and I can relate to the fans. ------RM
MLS has a perception problem, as we all know. Even people who have heard of the league always ask me if it's true players make 12K a year, and other nonsense. There aren't many players to hype, like in other sports, sure there is Beckham, and others that the average person has never heard of, and a majority of the best Americans play in Europe. Nothing you can do, but, wait, and hope MLS doesn't give up. Either it's going to take another 20 years, or MLS will become impatient and pull a Pele /NASL gimmicak and bring over someone young and world famous to get the viewers in the seats.
I agree with you on the mid table, to lower table teams. I don't get excited to watch those games, they're barely better than hyped, and nothing really exciting about relegation teams being slaughtered by one of the top teams either - especially EPL teams. I will watch Barca and Real games, just because I enjoy watching those two teams play, and Spain plays great soccer. With Serie A , I will probably watch any game, as I enjoy their tactics. I do watch NHL even if my team isn't playing. And, with MLS I just normally support whatever local team I'm near. Hopefully, someday, Tampa will get a team again, so I can go back to them. Until then, I try to watch as many MLS games as I can. But, NFL and College Football aren't even on my radar unless my teams are playing. Don't watch NBA, anymore, and have never gotten into MLB.
I think the slow and steady approach is working. Yes tv numbers aren't where people would have liked them to be by this time... but I think the NBCSN numbers (and general package) have shown very good progress. Would like to see $5M per team per yr for the next players contract. And, at that point be able to hold most of our mid tier US players here in the states. The next step is to lose only those players to Europe that can be sold to CL competitive teams. I think that is less then a decade away. For me the keys to a strong tv market are showing consistent strength in the CONCACAF CL (like winning it more than once) and having a strong US national team with lots of players from MLS. Both of these together will serve notice to the casual fan that the league is worth paying attention to. We're not that far away. Within 10 yrs. Call me 'slow and steady' optimistic.
I believe you hit upon something with regards to having a strong US national team with MLS based players. That will definitely cause more people to look. As it stands now, people who pay attention to soccer during world cup summers, hell, even friendlies, are constantly fed the fact that the players are in Europe, and when one is in MLS, sometimes it's treated as if that is an anomaly, or at best, a curiosity. Look at how most people, even US soccer fans, remarked when we lost to Mexico in the Gold Cup, pointing out they were mostly MLSers. Even with the US 23 squad people who should know better, liked to mention how many MLSers were there. It's like Americans found our inferiority complex, finally, and project it in the form of apathy towards our domestic league.
LOL no. The league has literally had this crisis and opted NOT to go that route. --------------------------- The draw of the mid/relegation fodder was exemplified perfectly this week. Blackburn VS Liverpool ... and Wigan VS ManU.
I find it very hard to watch a soccer game as a neutral. I really think this is the fundamental problem of MLS ratings and perhaps soccer ratings in general in this country. American's who don't get the excitement of soccer typically don't "get it" because they are not invested in the outcome of the game. There's a reason why we get most of our USNT/soccer converts at around WC time, and that's because the average Joe's (who root for the US in anything) finally get a taste of what the sport is like when you care about a result. The only teams that can regularly entertain Americans without the need for emotional investment on one of the sides are the very, very best - your Brazils, Barcelonas, Real Madrids and so on. To really be able to sit through a typical match otherwise is hard for most people. Is there a lesson in that for MLS TV ratings? It suggests that we need something like what the NFL does for TV where games on CBS and FOX are played at the same time and the game you get is determined by what region you're in. We need as many local eyeballs watching their local teams as possible. The markets of the teams involved make up the largest share of the national ratings, so if you split that up and have NBC Sports showing 3 or 4 games at the same time and it's divided by region, you could add a lot additional viewers. Now, that's probably not feasible cost-wise, but that would be the way to get the most people watching MLS on national TV at the same time.
This post will not be informative or have much insight. I just really really REALLY do not understand why an American soccer fan wouldn't want to watch MLS, especially the ones who live in MLS markets. How on Earth is this not a fun league to watch? I just want someone to quote me and just list some reasons as to why they don't support it/don't care for it. The only reason I haven't been watching MLS as long as others my age (This will be my 4th full season) is because where I was living at the time had only network television (4-5 channels) and no internet. When I moved out, I caught one MLS game and was instantly hooked. (I'm not from an MLS market either, this was back in MN) Why was my experience so much different from others? Why is it so hard for them to like? Just a really curious question that I've never been able to put my finger on.
I love this idea, except I wouldn't get to watch my team. Booooo. I do think it would work, though. It's like you were saying though, it's a cost thing.
Not having a local team For some fanatics like you and I, it wasn't a deterrent. But I can understand why it is for many, and I don't blame them. That's why I also think MLS needs to be the size of the Big 4 leagues if it wants to make a dent in that (as a 28-32 size league). I like team sports in general, but it's not a coincidence as a San Diegan that I don't care about the NBA or NHL.
They perceive it as inferior to the bigger world leagues and Champions League. Some guys I played indoor with played year-round and talked about Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Inter, AC Milan, Real, Barca all the time. Never watched or talked about MLS. When Peter Crouch scores his volley goal from outside the 18 in the EPL recently, it's "extraordinary", "magical" or "special". Eric Hassli does almost the same thing against Seattle last season and it's "Meh, that was just luck." Perception, rightly or wrongly.
I can't see your location, but are you and these guys in an MLS market? I know "Eurosnobs" exist everywhere, but I'm just wondering if they make up a higher percentage of people in non-MLS markets than MLS markets. Surely that has to be the case. I suppose my original question was a bit confusing. I'm more so interested in why the hell people who live in MLS markets choose not to make it to the games or watch them on television. I can understand people who aren't in a market resorting to a non-domestic league, but as for the people who have a local team, it's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. If you can't tell by the way I'm constructing my sentences, I'm having a bit of trouble putting into words what exactly it is I'm trying to say. It's THAT frustrating to me. And the bold I completely understand as I experienced the same reception when I posted Hassli's goal on facebook.
And the narrative has only recently started to get more interesting if you live in a market without a team. More teams with distinct personalities, more rivalries, more well-known players (not just from abroad). Compare that to watching say Colorado play Columbus in 2002 at 11 in the morning on ESPN2, to me they were just two teams playing soccer, even though I knew some of the players and wanted the league to be successful.