MLS Single entity (and all other league structure talk) Part II

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by ceezmad, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You've made your argument, I've made mine. I'm in no business to repeat myself.

    Well, I can't help you if you think you're smarter than the Front Offices of almost every MLS team. No one cares.

    Didn't say that. Please resign your comments to things I've said, as opposed to things you may have wished I said.


    Yup, people don't go to see bad soccer. If you think that means that the market is poisoned, I recommend you reconsider your stance and stop running around like the sky is falling.

    It's harming the market for Chicago Fire Soccer, not for soccer.

    See that thing at the end of my sentence? Let me quote it for you:
    That thing there, bolded, underlined, and italicized? That's a question mark. I asked a question, I was presented with more information than I previously had. The miracles of trying to actually exchange ideas.
     
  2. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a cup match .... it happens all the time everywhere in every country that plays multi-tier inclusive cups.

    You're also full of shit. There's any number of 8/9 players on that roster that (depending on what other team we're talking about) could start elsewhere.

    It'd help if you were capable of that ...

    You were in the SuperLiga Final in '09 as well as the Conference Final ... in '10 you were 4th in the East even though you missed the playoffs.

    Your "suck of the sucky suck suck suck" is a tad overstated.

    Yes, good product = good consumer response.

    Do you bitch about the Bears ?

    In no world is being better than half of the league "shit performance."

    You were talking about educating yourself and being intellectually honest earlier. Practice what you preach.

    No, being in the bottom handful of teams each year sucks ... missing the playoffs in 5+ year chunks at a time sucks.

    Reaching an international club final and playing in the conference finals ... does not.

    Yet the same market you're on about eats up the Cubs.

    What now son ?

    Brand new stuff is shiny ... people like shiny.

    Do the same yourself.

    It certainly is ... but holy shit are you overselling the shit out of it.
     
  3. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the interest of intellectual honesty, and as a fan of the most successful team in the history of SuperLiga: Fewer people cared about SuperLiga than the USOC, and there were twice as many eligible nations involved.
     
  4. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not at first. The Superliga got enough response at first to put the fire under CONCACAF to actually turn the CCC into the CONCACAF Champions League, which eventually killed Superliga
     
    El Naranja and HailtotheKing repped this.
  5. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    This is truth.
     
  6. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I remember being entertained as all hell by Superliga in the first year or two.
     
  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well the way things are going, Superliga may be the last time the Fire will face a liga MX team in a semi-official game, at least for the foreseeable future (not counting the desert cup vs. Chivas Youths). :(
     
  8. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, that was sort of our problem that no one wants to talk about over in Fire Forums. We won a lot of USOC's when not to many other teams would run out a full squad. Then, when the CCL slot appeared, everyone but us started taking it seriously, except for us (players / coaches / FO) and we started losing to the South Carolina DonkeyHawks
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad most people who actually had the opportunity to buy tickets to the thing weren't as enthralled.

    Team..........G...Total...Average
    Los Angeles...4...86,377..21,594
    DC United.....5...79,407..15,881
    FC Dallas.....3...42,170..14,057
    Houston......11..153,661..13,969
    Chivas USA....7...85,323..12,189
    Chicago.......7...83,259..11,894
    Neutrals......9...84,065...9,341
    New England..12...98,434...8,203
    Kansas City...2...15,663...7,832
    TOTAL........60..728,359..12,139
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    Let me know what year you think the Rapids took the USOC "seriously". ;)
     
  11. triplet1

    triplet1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2006
    I thought so too. In terms of making the sport more popular, college football was hugely popular (and still is), but the pro game simply wasn't very reputable -- low quality, players didn't respect contracts, teams didn't operate professionally. There's a biography on NFL Commish Joe Carr that talks about this at great lengths. There are some parallels to soccer, but it's a bit more fuzzy here. Clearly international soccer and other leagues are very popular in the U.S. compared to MLS, but I'm not sure that's because of professionalism or simply a higher quality of play.

    But the critical point to me was the NFL's realization that it would never be a major league unless and until it made it big in major markets -- and it needed owners in those markets with deep enough pockets to absorb those losses for years until it did.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, in that era, without season ticket holders, for alot of midweek games, that was reputable attendance. Second, it was a TV event anyway.

    @Mr. Warmth should apologize personally to you for not making his post about the Rapids. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Mike, I was starting to worry about you.

    But now, you've confirmed that I still own your emotions. Carry on...
     
  14. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    And yet, DCU cared last season, as to Chicago, as do Seattle, as do the Gals, as do RSL, as do SKC....

    We could keep going, but it's simpler to just say that you're outright wrong.

    Do we know that it will be bad soccer? I actually think it speaks more to the acumen of Indy's FO to be able to sell it more successfully than Chicago's FO has in recent years. If a 3rd rate city in a 2nd tier league in a 3rd rate soccer nation can sell it better than the clowns in Bridgeview, I think it speaks volumes.



    Did I say anything other than that? I didn't realize this was in the NASL Commissioner boards. Or the BPL boards.

    And yet, with that punctuation, your sentence remains "out of town stupid."
     
  15. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Losing to a team of amateurs in one season, and then losing to the worst team in MLS history at home in the cup in the next season sucks. There's no spinning this positively.

    OK. Who? Outside of Johnson and Magee [to whom I'd spoken about previously], who?


    2009 is 5 years ago, and 2010 is 4 years ago. There has been an entire pile of suck since then. Never mind that 2009 was the last season of Blanco, and he's not been replaced since.

    Um, no. 1 play in game in 4 seasons, and crediting the club for "near" accomplishments is moving the goalposts.

    Thank you for agreeing with me.

    Everyone does. They oversell their actually mediocre history to piles of mouthbreathing morons.


    And yet, no other league in the world has as many machinations to level the playing field as MLS. This ain't Cardiff City trying to survive in the BPL. This ain't Malaga trying to keep up with real and Barca. This is more like the packers in the NFL.


    And yet, Chicago has been both of these things for the majority of the past 5+ years, Blanco 's tenure excepted.

    Fixed.


    This is out of town stupid. Look at their attendance trend, and realize that its ballpark tourists and pumpkin-headed Iowans on busses that waste their money on that product. Even scrubs fans dumbasses have rubbed their 2 brain cells together to stop going to wrigley.

    But feel free to compare a century-old league with a century-old club with a urinal of a stadium to MLS.
     
  16. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    And the Fire were in the USOC Final in 2012, and the sem-final in 2013. I know you don't like facts, but they do exist.

    Why is this argument even happening here?
     
  17. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's this thing called a "trend" ... and after you look that up, apply that definition to CHI (which by the way you've already put on record as being shit) ....

    ... and you'll see that there's reason (especially according to you) that it won't be good.

    Indy is BRAND NEW ... that stuff happens. There is absolutely NOTHING that has happened yet to leave a bad taste in the mouth of Indy soccer fan. There is no trend of taking a step down in quality there ... there is nothing but sunshine, puppies, and rainbow farts.

    If you can't understand that ... it speaks volumes about you.

    It also isn't indicative of a team "sucking." There's no pinning that instance as proof that the club sucks.

    There's this big red-headed guy that could start for several teams ... one CB just moved to another team and will be a starter ... that guy from Ghana could start for a few teams ... you have a Costa Rican that a few teams wouldn't mind having along the back ... when that guy from Mali is healthy him too ... the lack of anything hurt your Kettering native but he's absolutely a starter for some of the other teams in the league ... and there's some teams that wouldn't mind having your "problem" with your Ecuadorian ST

    ok, that's 7 ... you got me. Of course, I could argue the Jamaican DEF you have too though.

    Yes, finishing 6th overall in the league in 2012 is a pile of suck.

    No.

    Absolutely not. It's pointing things out that you simply ignore, or flat out are wrong about. You saying "only one measly play in game" is a handy glossing over of the fact that you are only 1 full season of play removed from being 6th in the overall table.

    Facts are facts ... it has nothing to do with who states them.

    Kind of like the FACTS you've been ignorant to include about their USOC performances ... but yes, concentrate on the one off loss as proof positive :thumbsup:


    No other soccer league that is ...

    :rolleyes:

    Last season was the first time they've been out of the top 10 in attendance going back to at least 2001 ... and they fell all the way to 12th. Still well in the upper half. They had their two worst back to back seasons since ... guess when ? ....
     
    bunge repped this.
  18. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DCU won the Cup. DCU lost to every team in the tournament that matters. Draw your own conclusions. I'll draw the correct ones.

    You said he was 'poisoning the market'. That means something more than 'selling a bad product'.


    "I'm right simply because I'm from Chicago" is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on this board...and that's saying something.
     
  19. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dial it back, gang. This isn't a rivalry forum.
     
  20. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Can I disassemble @Khan's thoughtless and intellectually challenged posts since I'm not a rival?
     
    Achowat and HailtotheKing repped this.
  21. MattND28

    MattND28 Member

    Jan 10, 2014
    I don't see the need for single entity anymore.

    Why not a league with deep integration between clubs -- a la the NFL -- but not a single entity?

    What is a single entity really doing for the clubs anyway? Toronto still paid 90 million for two players who I'm not sure are actually worth that amount. I say that as a big Michael Bradley fan and an MLS fan that is eager to see Jermain Defoe here and I do think its great for the league but I do also believe they over-paid on these guys.

    Single entity is just confusing and seems to piss off a lot of current and potential future players. This league is no longer in danger of dying. That was the danger the single entity was supposed to address and since the danger is now irrelevant, the system is irrelevant as well.

    Time to change.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is where your thought process is wrong. That might have been the spin put on the single entity system, but the single entity system exists for one reason, to control costs. That reason is never going away. No matter how big MLS gets the owners will always want to control costs. Thus the reason for single entity will never go away.
     
    Oobers, triplet1, Zoidberg and 1 other person repped this.
  23. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Since you don't understand it, you should look into the NFL's attempt to be considered single entity. It might answer some of your questions.

    http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=5214509&src=desktop
     
    Eric B repped this.
  24. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mod note: I've already asked once; here it is again: Take the team-specific stuff that isn't related to the topic to the team-specific forums. Or to rivalries.
     
  25. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This Plus, there's a reason the NFLPA went after single entity in court. The NFL wants to be like MLS as much as MLS wants to be like the NFL...
     
    HailtotheKing, Zoidberg and bunge repped this.

Share This Page