They did it in the past with unbalanced schedules -- which is why the old head-to-head tiebreakers were actually by PPG, not points. Anyway, just saying MLS did defend head-to-head with an unbalanced schedule in previous years.
I don't think it likely that this tie breaker ever makes it past #3 (Disciplinary Points). At the 65% mark, we have a range from 275-424, making a likely range of 423-652 by seasons end, or about a 1:229 chance or so that any tie will be left "unbroken" by this tie breaker. That will be much more infrequent than any single one of the other 6-7 tie breakers. And to make the 3rd tie breaker, it would have to overcome the current range of the 1st and 2nd tie-breakers which will be more likely than Discipline Points to remain tied, but still likely no better than 1:100. Or so. Total Goals and GD tend to track table standings a bit better than Disciplinary points, which look practically random. This seems to be the one area of the game left, that Americans just seem to want to do things "the American way", although to be fair, tie-breakers are the one area that seems to be different from tournament to tournament, and league to league, with or without the Americans. It is an interesting set of tie-breakers, however.
Yeah, fair enough - an argument can be made for/against almost any tiebreaker. I think this year the league definitely wanted to emphasize open, attacking soccer and the tiebreaker supports that.
That's why I understand it not being the first tiebreaker, but doesn't H2H make more sense than disciplinary record or the very least a coin flip?
They seem to be saying that using H2H is unfair with the unbalanced schedule. All of the tie breakers are a teams performance against the entire league, which they seem to think is more fair. The discipline one is odd though, but it may be one way to encourage clean play when the league is trying to clean up the game.
It could be different in the East in a 3 way tie. Some East teams play each other 3 times, some play each other 2 times, so in a head to head between 3 teams there could be a different total number of games played.
Wow, really weird to see total goals ahead of goal differential. So essentially this year's MLS standings will be determined by: 1. total points 2. goals scored 3. goals allowed 4. disciplinary points
Dude... What are you talking about!? The only advantage they have is their owners are willing to spend the money they are allowed to spend.. Dont hate because your owner is unwilling or incapable of spending... That stuff is getting old given that neither of those teams are in first place this season
Yeah but I would argue no league in the US is transparent on rules and regulations. We know so much about other leagues primarily because the media dives into topics like mid-level exceptions, bonus structure, possible votes on rules, etc. We just don't have the media to make every little thing public. I know, more of a general statement but you get the gist. If this was even half as scrutinized as other leagues . . . we would have known the moment they voted.
So this is a good point, but I'd also argue the flip is true in that they can make up the rules as they go along because there isn't that same media scrutiny. They can get away with it. In part, I understand it. Everybody knows they want LA and NY to do well - just like every other league wants their NY / LA teams to do well (woops NFL?). I'm not even hating on it because SJ is still tops by 7 goals on most goals scored 45 to LA and NY's 38. But what about a team like Houston - with an excellent defense, +10 GD, but not as many GF. Seems unfair to them.
No you are correct, they can work in a closet. As I said, if the teams knew that it really is nothing more than poor media relations. And since we on the boards don't play, I will let them get upset if they didn't know. As for a team like Houston; regardless of all the noise it comes down to winning on the field. You don't have to worry about it if you aren't tied (and that goes for every team).
Yes, I suppose it is a little unfair *if* these really were just made up, and none of the players or coach's knew them until now. The only real questions then are: Would it have changed the way anybody actually played? Most teams go for the 3 points, and Goals and GD aren't paid much heed until late in the season. However, if some cynical suit(s) came up with the tie breakers after looking over the lay of the land (and the 25 goal scored, vs 7 goal differential difference between 5th place LAG and 6th place CUSA) then there would be a problem. And that is the possible concern, because I doubt the suits care much whether NY or LA finish 1st or 5th in their respective conferences, but of course 6th might be a different matter.
I normally feel hacky cross-posting verbatim from one forum to another... Fact is, every tiebreaker after that disciplinary record doesn't really matter, because how statistically likely is it that two teams will commit the same number of fouls, yellows, reds, etc. in a year? Ten billion to 1? If I were running a team, I'd petition the league if I missed out on the playoffs because of disciplinary points, and just include a footage reel of either bogus foul calls made against my team, or of a multitude of fouls missed by refs watching over the games of my opposition, as my evidence. Throw around some generic "the playoffs are fixed!" accusations for the cherry on top. The thing that makes the least sense about the disciplinary record suddenly becoming so important is...the standard of reffing hasn't gone up! There's no standard across the board, no consistency for how games are called! There's no consistency for what's punished by the DisCo! If you get Baldo Toledo for a game, you can disembowel someone and only get a yellow. If you get the spikey-haired Canadian dude, you'll get a red for simple slide tackles. It's taken one of the weakest things about MLS's product and potentially put it on a flood-lighted pedestal. What this does is essentially introduce a coin flip 4 rounds before the actual coin flip tiebreaker, because it could ultimately come to the luck of the draw on who you had reffing your games for whether you make the playoffs. Which is absurd.
So do the Galaxy and Chivas get home credit for road goals against each other? They are playing at home, after all.
There could be a situation where there was a point deduction for something, and the teams had the same road record.
Changing to goal difference probably made sense given the odd-numbered fixture list. Goals scored was a fairly stupid change that reeked of "let's make soccer more appealing to Americans mantra", but I'm not dying over it. Just keep in mind, you really have very little incentive to try not to score against a non-division opponent now. But having some random league discipline table is ********ing bush league. Especially, given that it counts the number of fouls, and more importantly how shitty the reffing has been at times in this league. What's the stupidest shit ever is how they ********ing announced it. That's the definition of...and wait for it....mickey mouse.
Several leagues use it. Many go to a playoff before it could be considered. Since ours is for the playoffs that is tough. A little dated: http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/tie-breakers-for-football-teams-level-on-points.html
None of the leagues in that table use goals scored ahead of goal difference. Sorry, I'm not sure I get your comment. Unless, you're just pointing out that goals scores is used as a secondary tie-breaker in those leagues.
I don't have any major problem with the tie-breaks. Not what I would do -- but whatever. Personal preference. I do agree with dropping H2H because I think league play standings should be determined only by your play against the entire league not one game. Now process -- I've a major problem. I don't believe this was adopted before the all-star game meeting. They would have announced it. I can't find anything saying that they adopted it earlier or the teams knew it, etc. That the league overlords, who do so much good for MLS, think it is acceptable to change any of the rules of the competition in the middle of the season is just flabbergasting to me. I just don't think you go there. You don't do it. You make the changes effective for 2013 and you accept that 2012 is locked in stone -- whatever was published before the season started. It just a basic rule of competitive integrity no matter how minuscule the rule change. Having said all that -- I too will not miss trying to track down H2H tie-breakers.
Hey, its better than Big East basketball. If two teams are tied for 1st place, the tiebreaker is H2H record against the 3rd placed team. lolwut?
Think I know why these two rules are in place: The Don could be envisioning some day MLS games could be played at neutral venues at international markets, similar to NBA and the once proposed Round Thirty Nine of EPL, where such games are neither home or road for both teams...
I've always hated coin flips and the drawing of lots. Can't they use something like earliest goal scored instead? At least it brings something the teams have done during a game as a factor.