MLS reveals new set of standings tiebreakers for '12 season

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by tab5g, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    henryo repped this.
  2. Howard the Drake

    Feb 27, 2010
    If teams are equal on 1, 2, 4, and 5, won't they be equal on 6 and 7 as well?
     
  3. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Someone in the FB comments section of that page has a good point: If two teams are even through the first five tie-breakers, it seems impossible for the 6th or 7th to break the tie. I admittedly haven't given it too much thought, but I can't picture a scenario where the 6th or 7th tiebreaker actually breaks the tie.

    Just to break it down in mathematical terms:

    Say both teams have scored X total goals. And say both have Y total away goals. Inherently, they'll both have X-Y home goals, so still tied.

    Likewise, X total goal differential. If both have Y total away goal differential, they'll both have to have have X-Y home goal differential.

    So rules 6 and 7 seem to be totally irrelevant.
     
  4. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just for the lazy:
     
    JoeSoccerFan, Len and WarrenWallace repped this.
  5. ColinMcCarthy

    ColinMcCarthy Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Beerking repped this.
  6. aletheist

    aletheist Member

    Nov 17, 2010
    Olathe, Kansas, USA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It does not seem right to impose this in the middle of the season. How is it fair to teams that have focused primarily on playing good defense up until now? Oh well, the best strategy is always just to finish ahead of everyone else on points so that none of these ever come into play.
     
    scaryice, Ismitje, bgix and 2 others repped this.
  7. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    On this rare occasion, I actually agree with this statement and sentiment/complaint.

    Although, this is a better point, IMO:


    I'm fine with "winning soccer" (PPG) being the primary and obvious table definer, and "attacking soccer" (GPG) being a heavy secondary focus (as a tie breaker). Although it is strange that Total Goals is somehow prioritized by MLS ahead of GD.
     
  8. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Yes, but who wants a coin flip to be only step 6 in the tie-breaking process?

    Better to include two meaningless steps and make the coin flip the more reasonable sounding 8th option.
     
  9. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Personally, I would have had #6 be fewer number of PK goals, and #7 be most goals from outside the 18-yard box.
     
  10. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    I'm hoping the MLS Cup location is determined by 8) coin flip or by 3) Fewest disciplinary points.
     
  11. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Also, does DisCo action add to the disciplinary points, or is it solely dependent on the cards given out by the referee? I'd kind of find it to be hilarious if, say, LA advances on that particular tiebreaker despite having a number of suspensions added on by the DisCo that didn't get called by the referee.

    Edit: I can't find a link to it anywhere on MLS's site, but searching for "Disciplinary Points" on the site leads here: http://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/disciplinary-points/2012

    Looking at that, the Revs are really wussy, and Montreal and RSL have really embraced the thug life.
     
  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to the full press release, the decision was made earlier this year. They just didn't announce it until now.

    http://www.prostamerika.com/2012/08/08/goals-scored-to-be-new-mls-tiebreaker/68802

     
  13. ColinMcCarthy

    ColinMcCarthy Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Beerking repped this.
  14. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    It was listed via here too: http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/competition-rules-and-regulations

    I've been clamoring for tie-breaker changes for years. I can quibble about what they've chosen -- and I think the bit about the irrelevance of the 6th and 7th tiebreakers might be true (gotta think about that). But the change was absolutely necessary. Now somebody can look at the table and have (almost all) the information they need to determine the order. The only thing that's not on a common table are the disciplinary points, and those are easy to find on the MLS website.

    Maybe some others will miss working out the head-to-head, two-way, three-way (and four and five-way) tie-breakers, but I'm not among them.
     
  15. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I'll miss them. What else am I supposed to do at the office? Actual work? **** that.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the Rapids are 13th overall. So does that mean the label of most thuggish team can be moved on to Salt Lake along with all the ex-Rapids they have (they've got another, Ross LaBeaux, on trial right now)? :D

    Nor am I.
     
  17. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Love the most goals scored tie breaker.

    honestly its all about entertainment.
     
    tab5g repped this.
  18. troutseth

    troutseth Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Why? It only matters that the teams know. Of course we want to know, but not critical.
     
  19. CenterForward

    CenterForward Member

    Feb 21, 2011
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree but I can't understand what purpose would it serve to only announce this now as opposed to when this decision has been made?
     
  20. troutseth

    troutseth Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Houston, TX
    honestly . . . probably some intern saying, "hey did we ever publish those new rules?" . . . . . "crap someone get a press release ready."
     
    Jasonma repped this.
  21. shoplifter

    shoplifter Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Transparency - i.e., "Not looking like we just changed the rules in the middle of the season"
     
    Stan Collins and 15 to 32 repped this.
  22. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most people don't give a @#$@# about tie breakers until towards the end of the season when they are meaningful. Knowing at the start of the season that the if the Revolution and Philly are tied at 6 points, that the Revolution would be ranked higher because they have 3 goals scored compared to Philly's 2 isn't that important.
     
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its going to suck to be the team that sweeps a team their tied with only to lose the tiebreaker because head-to-head doesn't matter at all. I get not having it as the first tiebreaker, but at all? Its really better to go to a coin flip than to look at the two teams and say "Hey, A beat B more than B beat A, they should win the tiebreaker."?
     
    Qdog, KensingtonSC and sccaflagger74 repped this.
  24. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    A few days ago I was thinking about my annual table thread (how that's going to happen now after these new table-unfriendly upgrades I really don't know), and I went over and took a look at the competition guidelines page -- it had the old rules. That's updated now, but as of just a few days ago it was the old stuff. It does make you wonder when the decision really was made.
     
    JoeSoccerFan and MLSNHTOWN repped this.
  25. sportsfan-quakes

    Mar 19, 2005
    San Jose
    It's hard to argue for using a head to head tiebreaker this year when teams don't play an equal number of home/away games. Yes, if a team sweeps the series it wouldn't matter, but that would be very rare (so far only San Jose has swept a series, vs RSL). But a 2-1 edge in head to head this year is much more likely and is it fair for the team with two home games to win a tiebreaker like that? That would be the case, for example, with Vancouver vs SJ this year where Vancouver won both home games lost to SJ at SJ.
     
    evilmonkeycmand and Sachsen repped this.

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