MLS Premier League, MLS League One...

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by Paulo PT, Dec 10, 2015.

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  1. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #51 HailtotheKing, Dec 23, 2015
    Why artificially RETRACT the top flight we already have? Why artificially DEVALUE top flight clubs?

    Why artificially enhance the second division when true growth is the goal? Band-Aid/broken femur and all ...
     
  2. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #52 Paulo PT, Dec 23, 2015
    ANOTHER SOLUTION WITH PROMOTION AND RELEGATION (Better)

    I think "Promotion and Relegation" in US only be possible IF:
    - Each league leaves 2 (MLS) or 4 (D2) spots vacants per season for promotion and relegation purposes.
    - At the end of each season the D2 on D1 and D3 on D2 will compete for one place with the Champions and Runner-up Clubs of D2 and D3 for a place in D1 and D2, respectively.
    - The original club members of each League remains intact securing each team initial investments.
    - However they will never expand to the League Maximum Number of teams, allowing this kind of mobility, dinamics and interleague cooperation, unique to Soccer. A distinctive mark and an huge incentive to all fans - Hope is the highest motivator.
    - This also suppose the reformulation of lower level divisions, ending interleague rivalry!
    - MLS - 32 Clubs (30 Club Members, plus 2 D2 teams)
    - NASL and USL replacement for Premier Soccer League (D2 - 62 Club Members plus 2 D3) and American Soccer League (D3 - 132 Club members. Probably more than Half were B, Reserve, O&O teams).
    - B, Reserve, Affilliated, O&O Teams or Clubs only allowed to play in D3 and can't be promoted!
    - MLS and PSL clubs could exist in the same Metro Areas IF they are more than 4,5 millions. None restriction to D3.
    - D3 not exclusive of any Upper League!

    D1 - Major League Soccer (MLS): 32 clubs.
    4 Conferences (Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern) x 8 Clubs.
    14 (1) + 24 (2) = 38 Regular Season Games.
    MLS CUP: 8 Clubs, 5 Games.
    (1) Intraconference games. (2) Interconference Games.

    4 League Titles: Conference Champion (14 games), Supporter's Shield Champions, MLS CUP Champion and Diamond Shield (If one team wins all 3 previous titles. Also next season they use this special shield in their uniform) + (US Open Cup and CONCACAF Champions League)

    D2 - Premier Soccer League (PSL): 64 Clubs.
    4 Conferences x 16 Clubs. 30 Regular Season Games (Intraconference Games Only).

    PSL Cup Winners Cup: 4 Clubs, 3 games. Winner: PSL Champion.
    PSL League CUP (Second League competition. Elimination tournament): 64 Clubs, 11 Games (Summer Competition)

    5 League Titles: Conference Champion, PSL Champion, PSL League Cup Champion, Leader's Shield (The team with the best performance in the League all 3 competitions) and Diamond Shield (If winning all 4 trophies). (+US Open Cup)

    D3 - American League Soccer (ALS): 128 Clubs. (Probably more than half will be B, Reserve or O&O or Affilliated teams with D1 or D2 clubs).

    4 Conferences x 4 Divisions x 8 Clubs.
    14 (1)+24 (2)= 38 Regular Season Games
    ALS CUP: 32 Clubs, 9 Games.

    (1)(2) Intraconference Games Only.
    (1) Intradivisional Games
    (2) Interdivisional Games

    4 League Titles: Division Champion (Bronze), Conference Champion (Silver), ASL CUP Champions (Gold) and Community/Diamond Shield (Diamond, If one team wins all 3 previous titles in the same season) (+US Open Cup)



    US OPEN CUP (Giving more importance to this competition, by introducing D1 sooner. Also because this is the only tournament when interleague clubs could play each other)
    R1: D3+D2+Amateur Clubs=192 Clubs
    R2: 96+ D1=128 Clubs
    R3: 64
    R4: 32
    R5: 16
    R6: 8
    R7: 4
    R8: 2

    Note: D1 plays 7 games if reaching the Final.
    CONCACAF Champions birth: Winner or Runner-up.
     
  3. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #53 Elninho, Dec 23, 2015
    Don't we already have a thread for pro/rel fantasies and implementation?
     
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  4. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #54 xtomx, Dec 23, 2015
    Good questions, that will never be answered by the Promotion/Relegation lunatic fringe.

    No, not better, just as stupid.
     
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  5. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #55 xtomx, Dec 23, 2015
    No, the voices in their heads keep telling them to try, try again.
     
  6. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #56 Paulo PT, Dec 23, 2015

    Why stupid? This promotion/relegation model keeps some interleague cooperation, mobility, dinamic, club goal, etc without jeopardizing MLS or D2 Club Members and their investment!

    This would make things very different from other sports, and I believe would boost soccer interest in US.

    But can you give me some reason for your opinion, maybe they could be convincent.
     
  7. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #57 xtomx, Dec 23, 2015
    Promotion/relegation for MLS is stupid.

    As for reasons, I (and many others) have explained why it is stupid.

    In short:

    MLS has NEVER mentioned anything about wanting promotion/relegation. Don Garber has been pretty clear about it.
    http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-soccer/story/2603271/don-garber-mls-wont-get-promotion-relegation

    No MLS owner will pay a nine-figure entrance fee, if there is a high likelihood of relegation in the first year or two. They would lose their investment.

    No current MLS owner would want to lose their investment to some "upstart" lower league team. If that team wants to join MLS, they can pay just like everyone else. MLS has been clear about that.

    Soccer does not have the culture in US/Canada as it does virtually everywhere in the world that has promotion and relegation.

    Promotion/relegation does not have any cultural relevance to the sports landscape in the US/Canada.
     
  8. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #58 Paulo PT, Dec 23, 2015
    Ok, You didn't read my post.

    I clearly said NONE MLS TEAM will be relegated! No investment will be at risk, etc.

    Only each league should at one point stop expansion and leave 2 berth in MLS and 4 berth in D2 (NASL, PLS or other) for each season lower teams entrance.

    Only D2 teams in D1 regardless their standing during season and the top 2 teams in D2 will compete for a SPOT in the next season. Like mexican "Liguilla". The same for D2/D3.

    This is not a plan for tomorrow.

    Never before 2020, because firts the leagues must work together, join forces, create a unique master plan for US Soccer, apart each League General Plan, etc.
     
  9. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #59 xtomx, Dec 23, 2015
    Yes, and it is even more stupid.
    It would completely devalue the nine figure "buy in" cost that new MLS franchises must pay.

    Keep your delusions flying, @Paulo PT.
     
  10. CoconutMonkey

    CoconutMonkey Member

    Aug 3, 2010
    Japan
    Club:
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #60 CoconutMonkey, Dec 23, 2015
    Is it unreasonable to want something resembling both? As a potential season ticket holder, I'd rather see as many of the league's teams as possible.
     
  11. CoconutMonkey

    CoconutMonkey Member

    Aug 3, 2010
    Japan
    Club:
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #61 CoconutMonkey, Dec 23, 2015
    Playing in Dec/Feb is one area I'm not so sure I agree with.

    I don't think there will be anything extreme like flipping the schedule, but the schedule is congested as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the the season eventually kicks off in the last week of February and the MLS Cup pushes further into December.

    I'm not saying it's ideal, but I don't think it's out of the question.
     
  12. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #62 Achowat, Dec 26, 2015
    I mean, the big concern is that if pro/rel is good, you'll need to demonstrate that with facts. Don't ask us to tell you why pro/rel sucks when you've given no reasons for pro/rel to be good besides 'I think it'd be nice'.

    And, yes, it would jeopardize MLS's investment. Because Bob Kraft makes money bringing real teams and real players to Gillette Stadium, not Chatanooga and Tulsa.
     
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  13. The Devil's Architect

    The Devil's Architect Member+

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #63 The Devil's Architect, Dec 26, 2015
    What do you know about the United States?

    The fact that we're in America and you know nothing about America is all the reason you need to know
     
  14. The Devil's Architect

    The Devil's Architect Member+

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #64 The Devil's Architect, Dec 26, 2015
    We did, we've also read them a hundred times before...
     
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  15. The Devil's Architect

    The Devil's Architect Member+

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #65 The Devil's Architect, Dec 26, 2015
    I fixed your post
     
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  16. The Devil's Architect

    The Devil's Architect Member+

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #66 The Devil's Architect, Dec 26, 2015
    Why does college football attendance and TV ratings obliterate Champions League ratings and attendance?

    Because NCAA Football Rules and Champions League droolz
     
  17. The Devil's Architect

    The Devil's Architect Member+

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #67 The Devil's Architect, Dec 26, 2015
    Like a teenage boy that just gave up LOTR for the Fountainhead
     
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  18. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    #68 song219, Dec 26, 2015
    If MLS was convinced to give up single-entity then maybe some of this might be worthy of discussion.
     
  19. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #69 Paulo PT, Jan 4, 2016
    Why UNCAF has so many clubs in CONCACAF Champions League?

    Do you think CONCACAF Champions League should have more or less teams?

    Maybe one Champions League with 16 clubs could become more interesting...

    - 4 groups with 4 teams each, 6 home and away games. 16 (GS) -4 (SF)-2 (F).
    - Canada 1, US 4, Mexico 4, CAFU 1, UNCAF 6. Playoff between Belize and Nicarágua

    A second Regional Cup running at the same time:

    NAFU CUP: 16 clubs (Canada 3, US 8, Mexico 5)
    UNCAF CUP: 16 clubs (12 clubs +3 Mexican Clubs)
    CAFU CUP: 16 clubs
    Same scheme: GS-SF-F


    12 US Clubs:
    - CONCACAF Champions League: US Open Cup Winner, MLS Cup Winner, Top 2 Overall MLS Table not yet in CL.
    NAFU CUP: US Open Cup runner-up, MLS Cup runner-up, NASL Champion, remaining MLS clubs in top 12 overall ranking.

    How this would work with the 2015 season results:
    - Champions League: Sporting Kansas City, New York Red Bulls, FC Dallas and Portland Timbers.
    - North American Cup: Philadelphia Union, Columbus Crew, New York Cosmos, Seattle Sounders FC, DC United, LA Galaxy, New England Revolution and San José Earthquakes.
     
  20. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #70 Elninho, Jan 4, 2016
    No. Just... no.

    CONCACAF reduced the size of each CCL group to 3 teams mostly in order to reduce the number of games and save money on travel costs. This was because almost every team in the CCL loses money playing it, including all the MLS teams and all the Liga MX teams. The prize money for winning the whole thing barely even covers the travel expenses. Playing more games will not increase interest. That can only happen with time.
     
  21. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #71 Paulo PT, Jan 4, 2016
    More games? 10 games the same they play now...

    The difference is that CL would be a more restricted competition, also Mexico and US representing half the clubs because the size of each country.

    At the same time the NAFU CUP give other teams the opportunity to play in an international competition with more mexican clubs.
     
  22. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #72 xtomx, Jan 4, 2016
    Please for the sake of humanity, just give it up, @Paulo PT. Your head must hurt, constantly banging it against the wall of reason.

    The NAFU CUP makes no sense and is completely unnecessary.
    Or, to be snarky, let's call your idea the STFU CUP. ;)
     
  23. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #73 Achowat, Jan 4, 2016
    Oh my God, no one cares. We don't want more cups, we don't want more international cups (we tried that, it was called Superliga, it didn't work), we don't even really want the domestic and international cups we have. No one cares about them.

    And, you want to add more games to an already packed schedule? When and why?

    The point of MLS is to make enough money showing soccer games that we can continue to show soccer games. The Cups, while admittedly fun, distract from that goal, and any attempt to create more of them, expand them, or in any way increase the amount of time and effort MLS spends on them is misguided.
     
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  24. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    #74 Paulo PT, Jan 4, 2016
    Right now clubs doesn't earn much Money (or even lose) with this Cups...

    But I think this cups could be a major factor in soccer development and revenue in north america.

    If this cups could atract countries fans like UEFA Champions League or Copa Libertadores the Money will show up.

    The problem is that CONCACAF Champions League has to many clubs from small countries (Central America and Caribbean).

    Yes, this is a waste of time and Money.

    However, a CONCACAF Champions League with better clubs and short could give the boost this competition needs to atract fan interest.

    The same way, one NAFU CUP only with clubs from Canada, US and Mexico could be a good second competition for clubs not eligible to Champions League.

    Again, Super Liga and this competitions are not the same thing.

    For example, what the point of having the SAME CLUBS playing in Champions League and in Super Liga?!!
     
  25. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #75 Elninho, Jan 4, 2016
    If any clubs at all are making money, it's the Central American clubs, which have big fan bases that are interested in seeing the US and Mexican clubs. The US and Mexican clubs are the ones that lose the most money, even when they're playing each other.

    Including bigger clubs isn't the answer. For the most part, US fans won't even show up to see big European clubs if they're playing midweek; all the big attendances for Euro club friendlies have been Saturdays or Sundays. The problem is that soccer as a sport isn't popular enough to get people to show up on weeknights.
     
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