It can be. There are more than a few places worse than Miami, or SE Fl, in the state. Interesting that you live in FL. I expected it you to live far away from here & formed your opinions on hearsay. Instead you may have formed them 1st hand, or close to it. Interesting. Miami may not support an MLS franchise. South Florida can. The move to Lockhart & the increased interest in the Strikers, as opposed to MFC, bears this out. I'll admit that all of this is tenuous. If the Strikers on field performance falls back to the level of MFC they are doomed to eventual failure. See your comments on all the other pro sport franchises we have as proof of that. The area only supports consistent winners and "contenders". Teams viewed as losers get little support. Miami Dolphin team history shows that to be true. If the Heat continue to challenge for, and win, championships they'll show the other side of that coin. As for the fan base. It is centered in Broward & Palm Beach Counties right now. If the Strikers continue to be successful onfield that base alone can support them in Div 2 and possibly in MLS. However, to really make it in MLS the fans in all 3 Counties have to be involved to consistently bring in 18,000+ fannies in the seats. That can be done, but it's going to take a tremendous effort to do it. Especially in Miami & Miami-Dade County. That small group of fans you mentioned are going to bust their butts to make it happen. The negativity that you represent, along with that of some other posters here, simply make us more determined to show all of you to be wrong. We know that we might not succeed, but we also know we've got to give it our best try to get our old (I'll be 70 soon), poor & disinterested neighbors to start paying attention to our impossible dream. Keep up the negativity, my man. It only inspires us & makes us that much more determined... And if we fail to get MLS here? Then we'll have the best Div 2 franchise & team in the country. We'll have the same season long party and fun we've just had. If there is anyone within driving distance of our party you're welcome to join us. The more the merrier, and your presence may just help to bring MLS back here. BTW, if you're so unhappy in FL, why don't you just leave? You'll be much happier. So will we. It's a win-win situation. Adios. Good luck to you.
Sigh I was refferring to the criteria Goober used to expand in S florida. Not his overall performance as commish.
Many times, people making research on populations and such, forget that census numbers are categorized AND subcategorized like crazy. The numbers you might be referring to might be the city of Miami proper, not the entire Miami Dade county area. Yes compared to other major cities/counties we dont fare as well. But you make it seem as if were all (or the majority) are dirt poor, illiterate and old as heck just sitting around waiting to die. Thats not the case. An MLS franchise is sustainable in this region. Money or other socio-economic factors is not an issue. Were just fickle by nature and it doesnt help we have so many other things and interests to do year round with our weather and to spend our money on .
What "criteria" was that, exactly? That the entire Miami metropolitan area support their MLS team, just like every other metropolitan area? Yeah, how idiotic.
A few counterpoints. #1 - I think Strikers and Rowdies fans who were around back in the 70s/80s would take serious issue with your claim that "They aren't Division I soccer cities". Tampa Bay and Fort Lauderdale were two of the best soccer markets in the US starting with the NASL through the ASL/APSL/A-League days before MLS. #2 - The Fusion drew crowds no worse, if not better, than clubs that still exist today in other "good" pro sports markets like New England, Dallas, Colorado, Columbus etc. They were a victim of bad ownership and poor branding(see the 4X higher attendance for The Fort Lauderdale Strikers as opposed to Miami FC in the same stadium). The Fusion, Mutiny and MFC wrecked the reputation of two of the best soccer markets in North America. As for the other teams in the area: Miami Heat: 17,000 average attendance over their entire existence. From 1988-2000 they played in the 16K capacity Miami Arena. Sorry but no reason whatsoever to lump them in as "poor attendance" Florida Marlins: Played their entire existence in the worst stadium in baseball and blew up two championship teams. Not the best strategy to grow a fanbase in a transplant-heavy market like SoFla. And don't count on a steady uptick in baseball support either, because the Fish are up to their fan-killing tricks again, as the bastardized Miami Marlins and the worst identity package in baseball history will be unveiled to the world on Friday. Florida Panthers: Currently riding a NHL record 10 season playoff drought. Put that kind of suck in any non-Canadian town and attendance will drop. Miami Dolphins: Despite not winning anything of merit since 1973, they've always drawn good crowds and strong fan support. They have a lot of history and a few generations of fans to sustain them through the tough years, something the latter 3 clubs have not yet built up.
#1 ... i just checked my calendar and yep ... it is not the 1970s or the 1980s #2 ... did you seriously just use Dallas, Colorado, New England and Columbus as your go to examples of MLS teams? those are amongst the worst still existing franchises in terms of fan support. they range from horrible to mediocre. there are a handful of MLS expansion spots left. the league is not looking to add anymore "mediocre" attendance teams to the mix ... they have enough albatrosses already. i have no doubt a Miami MSA could field an MLS team that fell in the bottom 5 of attendance somewhere in the 12-14K range ... news flash ... the bar for expansion teams has been raised in case you haven't noticed and now to be a successful expansion team you need to be able to put 18-20K buts in the seats every game minimum ... a Miami team couldn't do that. #3 ... excuses, excuses, excuses. no matter what you might "think" the Miami pro-sports teams attendance is like if you crunch the numbers for the past 4 seasons (that is if you take the average attendance and % capacity filled for each of the teams and compare it to the median of those measures for said team's league, so for example you compare the average att of the Dolphins vs the median average attendance for the NFL and so on and so forth) Miami MSA taken as a whole, all of their pro-sports teams considered, come in the bottom 5 of 55 MSAs with pro sports teams in both the US and Canada (the 55 includes LA, Chicago and NYC being counted twice since they often have two sets of teams usually an A team that draws better than a B team). now this may come as a shock to you but unfortunately it is true (you'll be happy to know you are in the bottom 5 with Columbus an MLS city you aspire to be like apparently despite the fact they have been on a steady decline for 5 years and are pretty much an off-field joke in the league.)
youre being awfully dismissive of the "excuses" he mentioned. They do have some impact, but i do agree that regardless, were a shitty sports market for various reasons. i have to say if there is one BS excuse, is using our weather as a main factor as to why the marlins do so poorly with attendance. "too humid and hot!" give me a break. Take it from me, im strictly a soccer and basketfall fan. The only local team i support is the Heat. all the other sports in the area i really could care less about.
i understand that there are reasons some cities have poor support for their pro teams. bad or tough weather, sucky teams, a lot of other fun things to do. but in the end it is irrelevant because the MLS team would be subject to the same "excuses/reasons" as the other pro-sports teams .... plus a few others. so if collectively the attendance for the pro-sports teams in Miami MSA is poor ... for whatever reason ... then it only stands to reason that MLS would be no exception ... and looking at the historic MLS attendance of the Fusion it wasn't ... their attendance was very poor even compared to the much lower attendances of that era. i just dont see ... from demographic and attendance data and the performance of the Fusion that Miami is a viable MLS market ... or at least not a top half attendance market. and in the new age of expansion that is what is needed in an expansion team. and this is not meant as a slight on the small but dedicated support group that does exist for the Strikers that would obviously love to have MLS. but just because a small group would want MLS does not mean that a city would be a good place for an MLS team. having said that i don't doubt that MLS will want to "capture" the Miami MSA as a prestige market despite all of the very clear warning signs against it and the league will end up with its first expansion "failure" and that at the very least the NE Revolution and Columbus Crew can look forward to having company at the bottom of the attendance rankings if/when Miami does join the league. and on a side note, something i am sure will upset Miami MSA fans ... the best soccer market in Florida ... from a demographic and overall pro sports attendance standpoint ... and from a strength of D2 support standpoint ... is actually Orlando. if MLS wants to expand into Florida i think the best bet would be Orlando (in about 5 years, especially if Orlando City continues to grow and maintain its support). i would love to see a Disney buy in with the current Orlando City SC to form an MLS ownership group for an Orlando Pirates SC MLS team (the pirates are a Disney tie in, plus there could be a partnership with Orlando Pirates FC in South Africa ... they could even share a very cool logo).
ha. well don garber did his state of the league address yesterday and directly mentioned meeting with a prospective expansion bidder from FL ... and then he listed other possible expansion sites including Miami ... ipso facto the group that was meeting with him was a FL market that ISN'T Miami. that means it is 98% likely that he got of that teleconference and went to meet with an Orlando expansion bidder ... so sorry
I see no evidence to suggest South Florida over Orlando. Orlando has a potential ownership group. Robbie/Traffic has no interest in MLS, and Claure is radioactive after the Barça debacle. Of course, Orlando is no shoo-in either. We need a dedicated stadium, or at least that renovation of the Citrus Bowl that only God knows when it will happen. But if it helps, the idea of "Orlando Pirates" or anything to do with Disney makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Besides, Disney wants nothing to do with pro sports in Orlando. They never have. (If MLS does come in with an "Orlando Pirates" though, I will end up having to adopt a One Piece theme to my blog.)
ha. actually i have always thought Orlando Pirates SC was the perfect name for an Orlando team because of the symmetry with Orlando Pirates FC of South Africa. it would be cool to have mirror teams sharing a logo/brand across two continents. the tie in with Disney was an afterthought, thinking that Disney could bring the big money needed to support an MLS team right. with their previous activities in pro-sports (this being a more reasonable less likely to lose money involvement with the current state of MLS) they might be game. i didn't realize the had a non-starter stance towards owning a team in Orlando proper.
If they do get a team just name it Orlando City F.C. enough with the stupid mascot at the end, if you want a mascot just have him in the game.. geez I think it would be more of a positive thing to have Orlando with the next expansion team because that would only increase our thirst to get on down in South Florida (MIAMI) or Ft, Lauderdale whatever.. Maybe a South Florida F.C. or something.. Conclusion is, if Orlando does gets a team and is succesful, it would pave the way for a Miami MLS expansion team, that way we'll have a direct rival, and there would be more trips from each team to the opponents stadium, that would be cool.
it is more likely that if Orlando gets a team then the league would rather set up Atlanta as their rival in the south than Miami (which as stated above is a medicore potential at best for an MLS team). Atlanta>Miami for MLS.
Being a Miami fan, I hate to see that negativity, but on the flip side that is probably what they are thinking. They rather go to another market than down here, I don't blame them. I just wish there were more fans like me down here, its just that out here you have a lot of immigrants straight from there country, having allegiance to thier team back home, and if not those same people think they can play professional soccer because MLS to them is a mickey Mouse league, and don't follow the (MLS) league.
i would say it has less to do with negativity and more to do with reality. Fact is, were a horrible sports market. theres no defending that. The important thing you have to keep supporting your local teams no matter what, whoever they are. dont worry so much about Miami or S florida as a good or bad market. i support my Heat through and through, since 1997. i attend games, watch them on tv at home or at a bar and buy their merchendise every year. They are my passion sports-wise apart from soccer. the same is true for many other sports fans that move here from other parts of the USA. they stay true to their team back home. As for MLS, like that miami herald sports columnist said about our soccer culture "why have flank steak when youre used to eating filet mignon?" lol
It's true that Atlanta or the Triangle would probably be a better addition on its own than SoFla. But Orlando to Atlanta is a helluva road trip. I agree that Orlando in strengthens the SoFla position. Just as an Atlanta entry would strengthen other towns closer to Atlanta than Orlando is.
What is funny is that MLS isn't that far away from being a good and proven destination for young South and Central American players looking toward Europe. Particularly Colombians. I think a lot of immigrants have an over-inflated opinion of the soccer they were getting in their own countries. They thought they were getting filet mignon. They were really eating at Burger King.
The Orlando supporters group would have an obligation to sing a version of the following classic at matches: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TezDF1ybD-k"]One Piece OST SoundTrack Overtaken - YouTube[/ame]
I have to disagree. You can call it burger king or whatever you want, but the product and knowledge throughout latin america traditionally was far superior (some could argue it still is) than anything MLS has done in its short history. Its not just over inflated opinions. My time watching mls is limited, but even i can tell how much the league has improved, especially in the last 5 years with the influx of more internationals. And it can only get better. Until then, many here will consider the league inferior or are just indifferent to it.
You can talk all you want about MLS history, failures, bad sports markets, rivalries and location. But when it comes down to it, all MLS cares about is how much money a owner has and what's the plan for the stadium. In that order. Everything else pretty much falls by the way side in light of those 2.
Read a piece on Claure last night in a magazine, and while most of it is about him, there was a brief mention of his failed MLS bid. Writer of the article said something along the lines of "Claure doesn't give up easily and will try again for an MLS team in better economic times." No quote or anything from Claure or anyone to support that, but just felt I should pass it along.
I think Claure was scared awary from his investment by the lack of season ticket sales. I commited for 4 tickets, but I dont think the presale went well. The deposit was minimal, $25 or $50 per seat, but once they called off the bid, the deposit was refunded within a matter of days. The aspect of his, and other MLS bid's that dont understand is why Barcelona (or Real Madrid whoever the 'partner' was) was not / and is not willing to invest more more in MLS. The superclubs could buy an MLS franchise and build a stadium for less than the cost of 1 superstar. As an example, Fernando Torres sold for 77MM Pounds, or approx. $100,000,000 to Chelsea! A superclub could purchase a franchise, and build a stadium for this price! The numbers are crazy , but when you consider you could essentially build a state of the art training academy for the price of one player, I don't understand why more foreign Superclub money is not pouring into MLS expansion opportunitites.